I understand the theory and the science behind it but in practice, there is really no need to consider such variables imo. Unless one is really after high output and want to push the subs to it’s extreme, then your technique is something worth trying out for “normal” used. I’ll say in normal use, just stick to the basics and one can still can good performance out of the bass. At the end of the day, if one have a beefy Amp/AVR, it should perform just fine.
My 2 cents.
Can you send me your arc file and let me take a look at it. You can DM me your upload link to your cloud based storage like Google drive for me to download.
That is true, only for the guys who have ample subwoofers in the room with tons of headroom.
Normally from my experience, you have quite a few who use single sub and uses only dual small 12” subs. There tend to be a habit to push the levels louder to pressurise the room. It is also quite common to see folks wanting more and more bass as time goes by. There are some who adds +8db boost + house curve of 8+db post EQ. If you are in that category, then u need to be wary of clipping the subwoofer signal in the digital domain. The approach u have mentioned above will not be ideal for that person, it will definitely clip the signal in the digital domain. However, There are also some who are satisfied with “x” levels and tend not to overdrive their subs. Then the above approach will work.
So if you belong in the category who don’t overboost the subwoofers and listen at MV-20,-15, you should be fine
However if u r running a single sub, and u r after that visceral impact, slam, ulf pressure, so you boost the subs all the way, then u need to take note of this risk….
I see… this is quite unique.
Since you are using one set of measurements, the next alternative is then to check this when you are creating a new profile
Make sure the slider for calibration levels is set the same as HT profile, and system wide target line brought down to 65dm, select the number of speakers and subs to be used then proceed with the creation of the stereo profile using the single set of measurements.
See if that works ?
For his case, we just simply have to take a look a his ARC file and decide what’s wrong. no point speculate what happen. I’m sure there is a good reason behind it.
I checked the 2 years warranty stated on the quote, actually year1 is distributor, year2 is manufacturer.
thanks for the info.
I would like to know why the peaks has to stay below 80db, because Arc genesis lowers that close to the target curve which is 75db anyway. If you could tell me that will be great as I realised the actual anthem website and the Arc genesis tutorial from Anthem does not mention this anywhere. Many thanks.
Yes, when you start Audyssey, it asks you to adjust the gain on the subwoofer until it is within a range and I have to adjust it to just 10% before it is in range. For music, I will sometimes lower it down to 10%, if it is overwhelming. But I like the room shaking bass for movies and 30% is about right. Above that, too many things start rattling around the house. Normal to change the subwoofer levels for different content?
It depends on the sub. Some SVS single ported subs have 1500W RMS and 5000W peak and do 120dB at 20Hz. Even for a Singapore living room with one powerful sub, there is ample headroom, and they have to be run at low gain. With enough money, it’s not difficult to pressurize most rooms, but right sizing with multiple subs, and not spending excessively, isn’t that easy to calculate.
Anyone have the Monolith sub with two 15 inch drivers? The 10-20Hz infrasonic power seems immense even compared to SVS’s best.
I think you misunderstood me. The “peak” I am referring to is the fluctuation of the freq response curve of the sub when using Quick Measure to get a reasonably good smooth response for your subwoofer. What this translate to is that the location of that particular subwoofer relative to your main listening position (MLP) is a good “resting place”. The room plays a “dynamic role” by interacting with the Anthem mic which will more than likely result in peaks that might go beyond a desirable output, which in this case is 80dB. Why 80dB you ask?.. Well, it is through experience that the majority of the Anthem owners in the AVSForum have agreed that any peaks that go beyond 80dB will likely get that dreadful, “pls lower your subwoofer gain…” warning msg. Focusing on taming the “peaks” rather than on the actual output level should take precedence over getting the target output of 75dB (e.g. for a single sub). This will also help to ensure the trim values of the speakers will be within a reasonable band. I did not cover this portion in the Advanced Settings tutorial simply because this portion of the Quick Measurement falls under the pre-ARC calibration ritual.
So ok one more question, if we did what Arc ask us to do and keep lowering the trims for the sub until the peaks go below 80db doesn’t that also lower the overall volume of the sub and we start getting very week bass.
No. it will not “weaken” the bass. Instead of talking what it could happen based on words…let’s put it in action and we will know the outcome soon enough. 
@Ronildog, @desray ,
I just send a link to desray to my ARC. I’m not sure if I need to share it with Ronildog via DM? I just joined this Forum so I’m not sure you all handle this. Please let me know.
Thanks!
No need to share with Roni since I am the requesting it.
I’m still wondering about 4 vs 6 tops and how it handles atmos static, bed, and dynamic object mixes.
Was looking thru Shane’s top blu ray lists and saw some of the well known and even demo grade movies are surprisingly not full dynamic mixes…
This is from monster hunter. It is actually a Bed atmos mix, static. I think it means 7.1.2 channels, only top left and top right content. I believe this is the same tops as when DSU up mixes any 5.1 or 7.1 content…
The difference, I believe, between Bed 7.1.2 atmos mix and pinned Disney style 7.1.4 mix is that the 2 bed tops will be scaled to all the left and right tops accordingly, whether it is 4, or 6 or even 8 or more tops.
While the pinned 4 tops will leave the top middle or more silent? Still not clear how the premium processors like trinnov and storm audio handle this scenario, together with rendering multiple pairs of surrounds for multiple rows of seats…
No problems with dynamic objects, those will render across all floor and ceiling channels…
From Shane’s list, also noted some movies have bed 7.1.2 tracks, together with dynamic objects. These will be best case.
Hi Daniel, I think I know why the target levels are vastly different. In fact, if you really did deeper, you’ll know there is nothing wrong with Anthem assigning different target levels (66dB for HT 7.2.2 profile and 75dB for Stereo 2.2 profile). Here are my observations.
For Profile 7.2.2 (HT with subs)
Target level: 68dB
Profile 2.2 (Stereo with subs)
Target level: 75dB
3.0 (LCR without subs)
Target level: 66dB
3.2 (LCR with subs)
Target level: 68dB
Before we go into the differences between the 2 profiles, let’s state the obvious first - There is no change in the distances measured by ARC for the 2 profiles, meaning it should not affect the phase, or time alignment as far as I can tell.
What is interesting is the interaction between the Mains (L + R) and the 2 subwoofers at play. The moment I added the center speaker into the mix, the target level immediately changed. The difference in output level for the 2 profiles (HT 7.2.2 and Stereo 2.2) is around 6 - 7dB, like you mentioned. While target levels changes, the trim values made up for it by “filling in” the differences of that 6 - 7dB. This translates to about the “same output” level as you cycle between the profiles.
So what could possibly account for the drastic change in target levels? Very clearly, it is your Mains. I believe you must have a very big tower for your Mains that can go pretty flat to 30Hz before dropping down to 20Hz? The crossover between your Mains are pretty “big” as the Center speaker is crossing over at 80Hz (the all-typical center speaker).
Take a look at the crossover for your Mains.
The crossover for low freq extension is 20Hz which means that you are allowing the Mains to handle the bass instead of handing it over to your subwoofers. The moment we add in the 2 subs, the target level has to be compensated in order for the mains low crossover to blend with the 2 subwoofers. What ARC is doing is correct, not wrong.
Phase correction
- One very glaring thing is the “missing” phase values. Why did you skip this part? This is very important. You need to do it, especially with such a wide difference in your Mains crossover compared to the rest of your speakers.
Here’s one with phase value
So what now? What can I experiment or do?
- Pls perform the auto-phase correction.
- Change your mains to bookshelf speakers or totally bypass the LFE input on your Mains (like setting the speakers to “Small” to allow ARC to do proper bass management. This will entail the bass to be “Send Bass to Bass” instead of ARC assigning a “4th order slope”. This should “in theory” gives you the same target level for all your profiles.
In short, I don’t see ARC doing anything wrong here. As I have mentioned in my DM to you, I will not do any adjustments to your ARC settings since you are already happy with the results. My task here is to point out to you the differences in target levels for the different profiles. The main culprit is your main integration with the rest of the speakers and the manner the bass is handled.
Ya it’s perfectly normal. I listen to less boosted bass for music profile… about only 6db boost for music . HT I applied close to +8db boost in the digital domain and a lift +7db below 30hz on the analog domain purely just on the quad f18 seatons…
That is why I have separate profiles saved on the anthem… one for music, one for HT…
Actually I’m not referring to the subwoofer capability…
What I’m referring to is the line level signal going in to the subwoofer amplifier input, and the load on the subwoofer channel on the avr / processor. These happen in the digital domain within the processor…
How one should optimise the gain structure of the system if you decide to push the levels on the subwoofer channel…which most people do…
If you do a bit more research on gain optimisation… u will learn about this…
