LG Display (TV/Projector) Owner Thread

Like what Sammy has mentioned, Even better is to find the point where u don’t up or down the iris post calibration and calibrate it to that point…. That will be the ultimate goal…

This might be different points for hdr and SDR. Because with SDR, there is no dynamic tone mapping.

For hdr, u want that specular highlights to pop to give u that hdr feel when watching movie. At least for me, it is one of the reasons I didn’t go with madvr is because I don’t want to switch the projector to use the gamma curve in SDR mode. The image looks much more accurate like SDR but doesn’t have that hdr look to it which I crave for … it feels like watching movies in SDR again…. so the only way to get the hdr pop out from this pj is to open the iris and use the built in hdr tone mapping curve to control how the curve should be and their luminance levels and its roll off points with different sources (ie 1000nit source, 4000nit source or 10k nits source) should track based on the room ambient light, the screen size and screen gain…

In this case, we are telling the projector now to use “x” curve and apply “x” amount of compression when it comes to source content that’s in 1k,4k,10k nits respectively

It’s really some work and time needed to find what works best in that room…

Basically what I like with hdr is this, just a random image above :point_up_2:t2:

If we observe the sunset, the sun is far off to the right, as sunsets . The clouds on the far right are Energized with light from the sun, and we see the clouds light up in orange , the stones etc are good enough, we can see them. But what captures my attention in this scene, 99% or the time, is it’s telling me it’s sunset and it’s going to be night soon. That bright orange sun in hdr mode is what I crave for, that tiny light that captures the attention with hdr … the specular highlights. I can see this with SDR mode as well, but it comes with less pop.

The problem for PJ owners is, some can’t see the shape of the sun at all. Some can see this with 1000nit source but can’t see it with a 4000 nit source, and gets worse with a 10k nit source

On other pjs, the saturation is so high to the extend the sun looks reddish . These are all the problems lotsa consumer face with hdr because of the equipment capabilities.

So enter dynamic tone mapping and some form of compression is applied to preserve these details . How much compression to apply, is how we tell the pj through calman using the hdr tone mapping curve available on this pj and it will follow your orders to apply the correct luminance levels to preserve shadows and colour saturation . These were all not available with the previous calman edition when we bought it in 2021 at launch…

So the struggle and goal here is really about, how to achieve the level of accuracy we are seeing with the SDR 3D LUT versions and yet retain that hdr image pop to it?

Some take the path of madvr, lumagen , external processor to get the tone mapping nice for almost all content. Personally I still think the built in DTM on the Lg is fantastic and can get the job done. The controls are available, user just needs to know how to apply the correct curve to use in that given room. But I’m not sure how good or far off it is hence the need to visit other set ups to find out. Today I’ll get to visit one with jvc lumagen (desray) combination and with the torture test files available for various content; I’ll get to know how far off the capabilities of this PJ …

When I calibrated the HU810, I chose an iris of 3 based on a review at wccftech. It has worked out well for me. Iris of 3 at contrast of 80 seemed to have the best perceived dynamic range. What the reviewer termed Dynamic range expression. For the higher specular highlights, he suggests an iris of 5. But I prefer the darks, especially in perfect darkness, so I stick with 3.

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Sammy, How to you find the native contrast of the LG projector, given you have 2 oled TV?

I read that it is really quite limited, but it seems to make up for it with it’s spectacular handling of colours and highlights.

I find that many of the reviews did not spend enough time with the HU810 to get the best contrast out of the projector like Bryan and I have done. It’s much better than has been described.

The native contrast of the LG HU810 is below that of my previous Sony SXRD projector, and obviously far below OLED. OLEDs not only have deep blacks, they are now 1,000-1,500 lumens in brightness so ten times most laser projectors, which simply cannot compare. However, MadVR does such a good job in compression that the picture still looks great in 100 or so lumens. The HU810’s contrast is slightly better than my previous DLPs (BenQ) because LG have a feature called Adaptive Contrast, which modulates the laser like an iris. In any case, I could never really take full advantage of the blacks of my previous Sony projector, except in the dead of night, because my room isn’t completely light controlled. Any light leakage completely ruins the image of a DILA or SXRD projector, bringing it close to DLP.

The LG is a laser projector, which means it is really bright (around 2,000 lumens in my daytime mode), so bright that it is quite watchable in the daytime without me closing all the curtains. My previous lamp-based Sony and BenQ were just too dim to be satisfying in the day. To get a bright laser Sony or JVC with the deep blacks cost major $. Around $10K or so and without a bat cave, I still won’t be able to take advantage of Sony or JVC deep blacks. The cheaper JVC is bulb based. So DLP laser is probably the best bang for the buck for me.

The other advantage of the LG is it can be auto calibrated with Calman so its relatively easy for the home theater enthusiast to do himself. This is quite important to me to get perfect color. LG’s tone mapping is decent, but adding MadVR makes it perfect to me.

I was also able to get the HU810 about a year ago at just USD1.7k on Amazon Prime Day. The alternative was the Epson LS12000, which was many times the price and has better blacks but other disadvantages. So all, in, with MadVR, I am very happy with the HU810. If I renovate my HT room to a bat cave, then only will I consider a JVC laser.

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Agreed wholeheartedly with your assessment.

After visiting bro desray, I had a better idea on what to look out for and how to squeeze the LG for the best image. I found that I needed to close iris down to 0, it gave me the best performance for both hdr and SDR and also the text looked sharper and had that crisp to it with iris down to 0…

I think I have finally nailed it this time…

Black levels and skin tones look very natural and inky





Experiment was time consuming but well worth the time

Also I found dynamic contrast setting to do the same, shifting colour temperate. At medium settings, the colours totally shifted from orange to yellow, setting it to low wasn’t as bad… overall, best not to engage this setting

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Again no problem getting grayscale and colours and white point to track accurately, grayscale were good down to 0% black, no issues with shadow details, yet image looked inky and contrasty…

This is a fantastic piece of gear, the only headache is the need to know what settings to be used when calibrating the PJ…

The software fix now allows for good decent calibration with the iris fully closed, so that gave the best black levels performance without crushing shadow details…

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Iris of 0 produces deep blacks for me, but limits the highlights. I used it when watching The Batman. Was very good for that movie.

I turn dynamic contrast off, but have adaptive contrast on high. Adaptive contrast modulates the laser power and is useful when iris is 0-3. Dynamic contrast does wierd things.

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I’ve compared all the iris settings 0-4, if the calibration is done correctly, it doesn’t crush black levels… no issues, you are right I too found the specular highlights does look slightly subdued when iris is closed down to 0

But if I pushed the iris higher, I lose that inky blacks I’m seeing on the JVC

After assessing the various iris options, I’ve come to appreciate iris at 0. It looks so good with majority of the content and test files , especially since I watch it in the dark… I don’t watch movies with windows or curtains open , so decided to fully close down the iris…

I also noticed the image is sharper and the specular highlights are much more refined, the layers on the light doesn’t show as much haze or have that halo like light around the specular highlights

Agree with you totally on adaptive contrast and dynamic contrast…

Very glad I made another attempt at calibrating the pj with the new version, the aurora colour engine is superb for Projector owners

Try iris 0 with DTM off. You get the most shadow detail. Without doing anything, it completely blows out highlights (eg The Meg), but if you are watching Dolby Vision LLDV with a HD Fury, it tone maps the bright scenes down to look nice. To me, this is the best picture possible without MadVR

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I did a little test this morning to show that for bright scenes, LLDV set at 100 nits is about the same performance in tone mapping as LG DTM. Note that this is taken in moderate ambient light, but the iris wide open. For this I used the famous horses scene from the S&M disc set for Dolby Vision 10,000 nits :point_down:

First up is LG with DTM on, which is perfect :point_down:

Compare that LG with DTM off. The HD Fury DV string is set at 1,000 nits. The highlights are badly blown :point_down:

Lowering the DV string to 500 nits, the highlights are still blown :point_down:

Bringing the DV string down to 200 nits. Aha now we have some improvement :point_down:

Finally at 100 nits (the minimum), it is about the same as LG DTM on :point_down:

So, with the DV string at 100 nits, LLDV is able to get similar tone mapping performance as LG DTM. If you look at the camera pictures, LG DTM is slightly darker, but to my eyes, they are similar and this is a rather extreme scene.

As shown in the other thread, LG DTM will make scenes excessively dark for me, whereas LLDV will not. With the DV string at 100 nits, there is no compelling reason to turn on LG DTM

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Interesting…any comments from @Wind and @Ronildoq on this?

Agree certain scene does portrait to be darker than usual when DTM is on.

My room isn’t as dark as you guys so… sometimes it goes unnoticed until someone pointed it out. :person_shrugging:

How does the dtm on LG PJ work on hdr10 content and dv content? Is it same function as the LG TVs?

For me, I turn off dtm on my oled on hdr10 content. If dtm is on, i find it affects the overall pq and presentation to be less real/accurate.

Theoretically, DTM should only be for HDR10 content. Dolby Vision and HDR10+ have dynamic meta data that tell the TV’s processor how to set the brightness frame by frame. Lumagen and MadVR analyze each frame before display and are essentially DTM systems. LLDV is getting a player’s (Oppo, Firestick etc) Dolby processor to use DV metadata to tone map first before outputting in LLDV (a form of tone-mapped HDR10)

Tone mapping is necessary for a lot of HDR10 content. Say the Batman vs Superman 4K UHD disc. I’m using the 2016 Ultimate Edition (there are 3 UHD versions including a remastered 2021 with some IMAX format). It’s only available in HDR10, no Dolby vision. As @matrix16888 pointed out in another thread, it has a lot of scenes that are 2,000-4,000 nits, which is way beyond any OLED. It stands to reason that if you turn off tone mapping on an OLED and try to watch this movie, it will be really blown out. The only reason it might not be is that LG OLEDs still do some static tone mapping when DTM is off.

On my LG projector, if you turn off DTM, Batman vs Superman HDR10 will be quite unwatchably bright as I don’t think my LG projector does static tone mapping (off static meta data) when DTM is off. However, its quite likely that LG’s projector and OLED DTM are different.

I have a different view from Sammy. Somehow our understanding differs. In my case, i turn on DTM on the LG. It is a “MUST”. Let me explain why

  1. We need to remember, the Projectors are not really capable of DV. What Sammy is merely doing, is to match the Dolby Block in the HD fury to what “he thinks” is the HDR10 processing capabilities of the display (in the above case 100nits), rather than the actual display characteristics of the screen, because what is done here, is HDR10 processing of the LG Projector.

  2. While the LLDV generation process does take into account per scene metadata and renders it to the best of it’s abilities, it’s not quite full dynamic tone mapping. We are still reliant on the capabilities of the Display. The source player do not know this. the users input this in the DV block

  3. What follows when DTM is off, is that Static Tone mapping is applied. LG’s default Static tone mapping curve is applied.

  4. PQ Luminance of content based to the HDR10 compliant stream static metadata info (SMPTE ST.2086, MaxFALL and MaxCLL) is then applied as follows
    a) Use ST2086 Maximum Display Luminance Value
    b) If MaxCLL value is lower, ie below 4000 nit or 1000 nit as found in metadata of the source, use MaxCLL value. in this case, if the Maxcll is 400nits, it will use this 400 nit peak luminance curve, which will still clip lotsa highlights
    C) If none of these are present in metadata, take 4000nits.

This is why a lot of the highlights are blown as you can see from his images above. Because he is using the default static tone mapping curve on the LG when he turned off the DTM

  1. The Peak Luminance curve is the most important setting when we calibrate the display for HDR Tone mapping calculations. It is done at this stage below :

This needs to be set correctly for the LLDV content to work well with Lg’s DTM, including its Roll Off points for 1,000 , 4000 nit metadata content and 10,000 nit respectively. To verify this , we need to generate a HDR pattern containing the respective metadata in 1k,4k, 10k nits respectively. If you do not set a roll off, the display will Hard Clip the PQ

  1. When DTM is on, the HDR10 tone mapping curve will be dynamically generated after analysing the signal peak on a frame by frame basis. This is not the same as LLDV, whereby Player led LLDV does the mapping contrast, brightness, peak luminance etc at source into HDR10. So when we set the string of the Dolby Block to 1000nits, the LG display now see this with a MaxCLL of 1000 nits and will use the 1000 nit curve applied above, according to peak luminance of the display at the home, with its % roll off applied for that curve.

as observe below, this is the type of HDR like image we crave for, at least for me and many others

here is confirmation from a very happy user , post calibrating his LG for HDR :slight_smile:

The image is darker, as confirmed by sammy, i totally agree. But see how it brings out the Highlights ? Isnt that what we are striving for with HDR and LLDV ? Only the sunlight in between that dark scene lights up. High Dynamic Range is like that. Thats what it means. Not the entire jungle lights up like stadium. That is no different from SDR.

In a controlled room , this is really bright, there is No black crush as far as im seeing it. If we have a 150’ vs 100’, its not going to be the same, as the 100’ projected image is going to have elevated black levels vs the 150’ thats gonna have deeper blacks. So the environment also plays a role.

Anyway, from this exercise, i found out the preference of many. There is no right or wrong, anybody can watch it however bright or dark they want. If one prefers darker, thats fine, or brighter APL, thats fine too.

Tone mapping for OLED is completely different thing compared to Projectors. Yours can easily do 700nits whilst PJs cant. How do you deal with content having MaxCLL >1000 nits, that will be blown. You will hard clip the image if no DTM is turned on. Movies like Harry potter, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, blade runner some even in 10k nits. Its fine if the source video has a peak luminance of 1000nits, but if you play the spears and munsil disc 4000nit hdr version, you will clip the colours.

The sun will disappear and the entire sky at the right end will be full orange
sunset sun disappeared

Sun can be seen, if tone mapping turned on for 4000 nit metadata version

Test this scene on your display and u will get what i mean that DTM must be turned on.

This is actually a good test scene. Here is what the scene looks like on my OLED (Dolby Vision 10,000 nits) :point_down:

The outline of the sun is clear on the OLED, but notice that the rocks in the foreground are quite clear. With LG DTM on, they disappear as the blacks are crushed.

LG Projector. Ambient light so contrast is pretty bad - the blacks looking grey and the foreground is bright compared to at night.

MadVR SDR BT2020 :point_down:

HDR with DTM on :point_down:

LLDV with DTM off :point_down: