I have watched both series and don’t find seeing any details lost. On the contrary, I had issues with the light sabre scenes on most Star Wars movies.
Especially for HDR10 on Star Wars, every light sabre scene is just too bright. Difficult for the eyes to track the light as the sabres moves up down left right.
But with LLDV , the amount of light put out on screen is controlled and not as eye fatiguing.
I’ll try and watch again episode 6 obi wan. But it’s nice, don’t mind watching again that finale.
Oh yes, and I don’t use those movies to evaluate the video, I always use the spears and munsil disc to evaluate post calibration results
If I get that correct on the spears and munsil, it will look good on the majority of the content. But for me, I can’t clip contrast details. There is just too much loss of details when u clip contrast, the clouds non existent, the specular highlights within highlights non existent, snow is gone, depth suffers too. And u just saw how the sun disappears during sunset above, Way too obvious for me
I once watched a K drama, “The silent Sea”. In one of the scenes, it was super dark. There was a creature crawling in the spaceship. I struggled to see what it was. Later I realised that no matter how much I cranked up the light, i still couldn’t see the creature clearly. So immediately I knew it was directors intent not for us to see the face of the creature until later episodes. And it turns out, true enough, it wasn’t a creature, it was a little girl… then I knew, ok nothing wrong with my calibration and loss of shadow details… some things are just not meant to be seen
I want to see the details as well, like in the above scene, there is so much details in aquaman under water scene where he retrieved the trident. It’s actually showing u that many have tried to retrieve the trident but failed. If the scene is too dark, u can’t see the skull and bones and rocks etc under water. I struggled with this scene on the BenQ pj previously. So yes, no clipping of contrast and preserving shadows at the same time is still a must.
Very strange, I don’t find issues with DTM on for my case. Am clearly seeing the benefits of DTM on instead….
Madvr is definitely on another level… I’d get that over the lumagen for video if I was a videophile… for now happy with the fury combo LLDV … that hits the spot nicely for me….
*Yes 100nits on DV tab on the hd fury. But I can see the rocks clearly on mine
If u observe yours vs mine, u will see that on yours, the sun is not showing .
Whereas on mine, u can see the sun, one round sun at the far right corner*
Its not yours vs mine. Both the pictures I posted are those you posted earlier that I downloaded and cropped. The one with the foreground rocks showing is yours with DTM off. I find that I must view the webpage on a HDR display (like my MacBook Pro) to see the loss in shadow detail when DTM is on
I see… wonder where did the sun disappeared into? Hmm… maybe the cropping tool is compressing the image and we are not seeing things as intended correctly from that pic
On the Spears and Munsil disc, I do see what you say about the loss in detail, but on a maximum bright 10,000 nit scene, if you apply LLDV+DTM, the tone of the snow is wrong. It doesn’t look like a bright white snow scene anymore i.e., not realistic. It’s like grey snow looking through a ND filter
I see, no wonder the image is zoomed up…. I was wondering what has happened to that tiny sun at the far right corner… that explains it now…. So it’s a cropped up image for the same pic
But personally viewing it last night, yes indeed it is darker when DTM is on , but there is no loss of shadow details
I think end of the day, it’s better for one to decide on their own if that is better or not… sometimes I don’t necessarily follow the advice of the experts, because they are not using the same Pj as we are… so that part of the evaluation is probably better done at your own place, and if u find that DTM off is better, then stick to that approach….
I find it strange that Tyler mentioned that we shouldn’t use the horse scene to test for clipping, that is one of the best scene to test I find. And I think we will also see a new edition spears and munsil disc coming soon… saw it was mentioned by one of the calibrators during the recent TV shootout
On the Trident scene, in my limited view, its not a good test for shadow detail because the bright trident is equalizing out the average light level. We need a pure dark scene with no super bright parts (like Obiwan desert scene) to determine if shadow details are preserved
Bryan, one of these days when you are free, I will bring my Apple TV over to your place, where I have all the scenes that I use to show the issues with loss of shadow detail on my setup. I would be curious to see what you are saying about it not being a problem in your room.
If u pull out the SDR version instead, u will observe the calibrated reference looks exactly like the hdr with DTM on… that looks correct to me actually… the one with DTM off that shows lost of details, is ever present with the SDR version….
I pulled up the SDR version on S&M. On my projector, the SDR version doesn’t look that much like the LLDV+DTM. It’s definitely whiter and brighter. In particular, the rightmost horse has an orange tone, which is not present on LLDV+DTM. Desray was talking about this a few months back that the colors on LLDV were different and I had attributed it to Dolby Vision.
I must say that your Black Panther screenshot is very good. Mine looks nothing like that when DTM is on no matter what I do to the settings. Will try it again at night
I looked up the dark scene from Black Panther and compared between DTM on and DTM off. The scene does not have much low highlight detail (just a little in the headdress) and for my projector there is no difference between DTM off and DTM on, in terms of shadow detail. Obiwan may be a bigger challenge
Ok I can see now, I clearly prefer the one with DTM on , the darker one above
The one at the bottom looks like there is a spotlight normally seen in stadiums shining at him and it feels like it is placed at the right side in the jungle…. Doesn’t look natural at all, it’s like why is there a spotlight in the jungle ? Jungle is meant to be dark… not lit up with lights like u see in stadiums…. I believe the light shine on his head, is a reflection of the light from the moon, that is why it is showing on his forehead only… I’m not sure if there was a spotlight placed at the right side on one of the jeeps, let me revisit
That’s the key takeaway…
I don’t recall seeing this high amount of light shine on his face, even on the OLED I have …
Yes, that is correct…sometimes “over-exposing” to get that shadow details may end up counter productive. Different movies have a different style of colour grading, black levels and shadow details. Use proper test pattern to determine the correct black levels and white levels. If it’s meant to be seen in a movie scene, it will show up but not otherwise.
It’s hard to determine what details the director intended given the compromises of HDR on projectors, even expensive ones. Even a good processor like Lumagen or MADVR may alter the picture in such a way that it’s quite different from what you would see in a dark commercial cinema.
My thought is to look at the SDR version of the movie. It should at least have the tonality and average light levels of that version.
Let me correct you on the portion of compromises of HDR on projectors…I believe what you are trying to say is DTM…DTM itself will NEVER be perfect because of different types of display…with each display having different panels, characteristics etc…so far, the most well known technique used is Scene-by-Scene or Frame-by-Frame…DTM itself is a compression algorithm, hence there will always be compromise in some form or another. I agreed that using SDR is the best way to determine whether there should be details or not…This is why most calibration s/w will calibrate using SDR BT2020 colourspace instead of HDR2020. PQ curve for HDR is not easy to track nicely as compared to Gamma in SDR mode.
Ok we can see above, if u r watching movies like Harry Potter bluray with 4000 nits version, you are going to miss a ton of detail with DTM off. See what’s happening to 4000 not file with DTM off on HDR10…. There is absolutely no way DTM should be off…. It must be on…
