LG Display (TV/Projector) Owner Thread

[sammy]

Bryan, It very much depends on how you set the HDFury. If you setting the luminance on the DV string much higher (e.g. 1,000 nits) than the projector’s actual maximum luminance (about 100 nits calibrated for me), then the Dolby processor at your player is doing minimum tone mapping and then only for really bright scenes. However, if you set the luminance on the DV string low (like 100 nits), then the player’s Dolby processor is doing 100% of the tone mapping and you can turn the DTM off. Whether you like the effect or not is a matter of taste, but I find that doing it this way makes it look like SDR, which, except for the reduced colors, is a nice way to run our low nit projector.

I will pull the horse scene from the S&M disc for you using my settings. The image is not as tone mapped down as with DTM on, but is not blown out either. Tyler from Portrait Displays says that using the horse image is not a good way to measure as it is very rare than any movie frame will get to that extreme luminance.

You and I both came from BenQ projectors where the tone mapping could not be turned off and we had to chose from one of six tone curves (the HDR Brightness). Hence, we developed this funky way of fiddling with the HDFury until we got pleasing balanced video. This is not the case with the LG as tone mapping can be turned off.

[Ronildoq]

Interesting…. I have actually compared this setting on the LG, using 40,100,1000, 4000,10,000 nits, all of which clips when playing a source video mastered in 4000 nit version … 1,000 nit version still ok, u still see details but again the DTM helps a great deal on the LG… I find it to be very good actually with DTM turned on

I even have a video of it… below

LG AU810PB Dynamic Tone Mapping

Even with 100nits setting on the PJ, u will clip this scene…

But when u get to movies like blade runner, Harry Potter etc mastered in 10,000 nits and 4k nits respectively, a lot of details will be missing…

That is why I went with turning DTM on… so any movie, whether mastered in 1k, 4k or 10k nits looks good overall…

[sammy]

LLDV (DV tab at 100 nits) DTM off

HDR10 (no HDFury processing) DTM off

HDR10 DTM on

[sammy]

When you tone map twice LLDV plus DTM on, you will get an even darker picture i.e., the horse scene looks awesome, but I would argue that the rest of your HDR scenes will be too dark.

Just to note, the Dolby Vision scenes on the S&M disc are 10,000 nits. Not 4,000 nits.

BTW, I watched Lightyear last night with DTM off and LLDV at 100 nits. Was perfect. Anything on Disney+ is nice. But some Netflix TV series are slightly too bright.

[Ronildoq]

@sammy

LLDV (DV tab at 100 nits) DTM off

Which video version u playing on the spears munsil disk, did u play the 4,000 nits native dolby vision file ?

I’ll pull out my version to compare later tonight in a dark room environment…

And do one more also, since u r on it, LLDV + DTM on… so we have 4 to compare…

Let’s find out…. Interesting…

[Ronildoq]

@sammy

When you tone map twice LLDV plus DTM on, you will get an even darker picture i.e., the horse scene looks awesome, but I would argue that the rest of your HDR scenes will be too dark.

Just to note, the Dolby Vision scenes on the S&M disc are 10,000 nits. Not 4,000 nits.

BTW, I watched Lightyear last night with DTM off and LLDV at 100 nits. Was perfect. Anything on Disney+ is nice. But some Netflix TV series are slightly too bright.

One more thing, can u share your settings on the hd fury ? Did u use global dimming on or off?

We can compare to see the pros and cons…… I recall I did this test in the early stages when I first got the Lg pj… might be worth revisiting with this new approach u have

[sammy]

Bryan, it’s quite simple to show where LG’s DTM is too dark. Obiwan Episode 6 from about 32 mins in. It’s an extended dark desert scene. If you have DTM on it will just be a murky mess. But with DTM on, it’s quite watchable, not far off from my OLED

[sammy]

Here is the LLDV+DTM. It may have the most background detail, but I would argue that it is actually unrealistically dark and if you apply this mode to other movie material, it would be too dark.

This is the menu from my S&M disc. There is no DV 4,000 nit only HDR 4,000 nit

[sammy]

I tried Global Dimming on and off. It didn’t seem to make a difference

[Ronildoq]

Ok let me try tonight, what happens when u play HDR10 file non DV file ? 4k nits HDR10 file

Since most bluray comes with HDR10 .

Do u also switch DTM off ?

[sammy]

Streamed HDR10 is also quite often too dark for my taste too with DTM on. It depends on how it is mastered. If it’s dark, I can turn DTM off, but if the highlights are then blown (MaxCLL is high), I will switch the ATV4K or Firestick to 4K SDR, but that is rare as most streamed HDR is in Dolby Vision these days.

In the case of my UHD player, Panasonic, UB820, it has a SDR BT2020 mode, which works very nicely with the LG HU810. The Panasonic’s famous HDR Optimizer worked very well with my BenQ, but it’s not powerful enough for the LG. SDR BT2020 is just nice

BTW, did you watch Moon Night on Disney+. I’ve just started on it and it has very dark scenes. I switched DTM on and it was way too dark for me.

[Wind]

You guys more advance than me la lol. But same as Ronlidoq, I watch with LLDV and dynamic tone mapping turned on always.

At most I will adjust the iris a notch up or down depending on movie. Or basically just don’t care much and enjoy the movie.

[Ronildoq]

Ok here I have taken the samples. Let’s see. And I still find that LLDV with DTM should be turned on on the Lg pj, personally I find it way way nicer .

There is no doubt we all prefer LLDV, so the question now is DTM on or off on the PJ….

I don’t see why u should turn DTM off

The first sample below shows u that horse scene,

U can see above, it is quite obvious. The snow, the mountain, the number on the horse etc… so much info is missing on this horse scene with DTM off

Now let’s look at this pic, see the clouds above on the right , DTM on vs off

Next let’s look at the crocodile scene, on the left, u will a lot of details missing on the stone . And look at the crocodile skin, it’s so much less inky, on his head

If I take a close up pic, here is how it looks on the same stone

When it comes to darker scenes, I don’t see any loss of shadow details

I can see the sun on the far right, that round orange ball. And I can see the rocks on the mountain clearly. (Camera not showing)

Another dark scene below

No issues with shadow details… I can still see them clearly with DTM on vs off

Enter this scene below

I can see why some will prefer the DTM off on this one above

For me, no doubt LLDV with LG’s DTM turned on is the way to go….i cant see why u can’t do tone mapping at source using LLDV and then let the sink do DTM again….there appears to be benefit with this approach from what I’m seeing with my eyes….

[sammy]

Did you set the DV string to 100 nits? Also try using Disney+ movies instead of video. I may have to sit down with you

I see some lost details on these two scenes despite the camera compensation

Most of the rocks in the foreground completely disappear when DTM is on.

As I mentioned before watch Moon Knight and that episode 6 of Obiwan

[sammy]

Here is the severe loss of shadow detail in Obiwan Episode 6 desert scene. Note that I have tried to make the brightness of my iPhone camera equivalent for both scenes, by focusing on the LG menu, which is similar brightness for both frames. I’m willing to accept slightly less contrast in bright images for shadow detail

[desray]

The only difference between the 2 in your video chain is the Vertex 2. Maybe Sammy or bro Bryan can pay each other a visit to take a look what is accounting for the differences in opinions since both are using the same projector.

I wonder is there any other key changes in the projector setting between the 2 of you or is there a possibility of some variance in the manufacturing batch that might account for such a drastic difference. Last I recalled my viewing experience on the LG projector when I’m at bro Wind and Bryan place to be quite good when it comes to HDR scenes. Colors accurate and shadow details quite good based on my personal experience doing calibration on projectors.

[sammy]

Our calibrations are slightly different because of screen material, screen gain and reflections off the walls. I have carefully tweaked the Vertex2 from the original BenQ settings for the LG. For me, shadow detail takes a huge hit with DTM on, no matter how much I adjust the brightness. Unless we get a Lumagen or MADVR setup, there will be tradeoffs. For me, I don’t mind some loss in bright detail for much more shadow detail because so many movies today like Moon Knight, Obiwan, Dr Strange are mastered quite dark. Bryan may prefer the cloud detail and greater contrast in bright scenes.

Desray, do you use LLDV through HD Fury before the signal is sent to your Lumagen? I would say most of the MADVR people on AVSForum are using it

[Ronildoq]

@sammy

Did you set the DV string to 100 nits? Also try using Disney+ movies instead of video. I may have to sit down with you

I see some lost details on these two scenes despite the camera compensation

Yes 100nits on DV tab on the hd fury. But I can see the rocks clearly on mine

If u observe yours vs mine, u will see that on yours, the sun is not showing .

Whereas on mine, u can see the sun, one round sun at the far right corner

If u observe this pic, u will realise that the sunset is at the far right, so only the area on the right lights up. Not the entire sky lights up in orange. On the left, it is supposed to be darker instead…so layers of orange sunlight is filtered by the clouds… so it looks natural to my eyes actually… that is why DTM on is the way to go for me…

[desray]

@sammy

Desray, do you use LLDV through HD Fury before the signal is sent to your Lumagen? I would say most of the MADVR people on AVSForum are using it

Haha. I sold my Vertex 2 immediately after I got the Lumagen RP. I did borrowed a Vertex 2 from Bro Wind and the DTM on Lumagen RP literally destoyed Vertex 2 LLDV. This is not apple to apple comparison so I’ll just stop here.

[kaydee6]

@desray

Haha. I sold my Vertex 2 immediately after I got the Lumagen RP. I did borrowed a Vertex 2 from Bro Wind and the DTM on Lumagen RP literally destoyed Vertex 2 LLDV. This is not apple to apple comparison so I’ll just stop here.

lol.
Videophiles must get lumagen or madvr envy la, else just hobbyist.