Nice to see misunderstandings cleared immediately in this forum!
A quick share…
REDLINE - LFE out raw from the subs
YELLOW - ARC applied. I am surprised to see the dip near 50Hz not addressed.
CYAN - fortunately the Arendals does comes with internal PEQ capability on the sub’s amp… so added some boost around there get a more even output.
The one thing I have qibbles with Anthem and ARC is the lack of micro adjustment.
The house curve adjustment in terms of room gain, boost, crossover and different frequency in terms of extensions are all nice MACRO adjustment.
We have to put all faith is the ARC algorithm calculations.
What I would like to see in future upgrade is a B4 and After measurement regime.
It is logical the need take measurements to know how to correct the raw response.
I’m just surprise the system does not do a POST measurement to VALIDATE that the ARC EQ applied produce the desired outcome. Here it’s just an assumption that it is ‘correct’… and micro adjustment would have been useful to tackle fine tuning efforts…
Am I asking too much 
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alright, i have had a fair amount of time with the AVM90… here it goes… more go follow along the way. Some may have been covered, but i will try and list down the pros and cons
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First thing i noticed is, when you hook up the AVM90, and if you have 6 heights in use, you must assign Heights 1 as Front/Top Heights, followed by Middle Heights as Height 2 and finally Back for Heights 3. It goes Front-Top-Back. So i had to reconnect the XLR cables at the back! You cannot use Heights 3 as front, there is no option. Thank god not too tough. Problem solved, but if you are hooking this up the 1st time, make sure it follows the sequence.
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After hooking the system up, the first thing the users want to know is if the speakers have been hooked up correctly or not ? Turns out the only way to verify this is to run “Quick Measure” to test. The test Noise Function doesnt work.
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CEC command. Turning on HDMI in mutes all the HDMI out. So if you are wondering why no sound out, check HDMI IN, make sure that is off.
These were the problems i encountered, but not really problems. its just how the processor works. So take note.
The first thing i did, was to compare the RAW sound, Un’EQed version of the processor. It sounded fantastic. Beautiful midrange clarity and details. The Lyngdorf was a Distant second. Not even close when it comes to details and clarity, the AVM90 is far superior.
Once i had gotten it out of the way, i attempted my first room calibration. So i connected all 4 Preout on the subs, a pair of Seas Line Array 6x10’ woofers on each side, and a pair of Stacked 18’ seatons.
Post calibration and verification below , Lyngdorf vs Anthem
On SPLs and amplitude response
Lyngdorf
Anthem ARC
You can see above, the ARC didnt do a good Job blending all 4 subs, the Lyngdorf’s Room Perfect is far superior when it comes to blending of all 4 subs
Lets look at the decay now
You can see above, before EQ, post EQ Room perfect, vs ARC… This is pretty clear the Room Perfect room correction algorithm is far superior to ARC
the 3rd element is now Total Harmonic Distortion.
On the AVM90, you can see immediately THD is way higher compared to the Lyngdorf. its partly due to this i found.
What the ARC Does?
It focuses on correction in the amplitude domain, instead of time domain. So how it does this is it corrects for every single sub to meet a 75db target, once it meets the 75db flat target, it blends them as 1. So it corrects for all the peaks in that sub, and a max of +6db boost where necessary.One problem with this approach, lets see below :
What happens when i have a pair of seatons perfectly blended as follows
The answer is simple, there is no need for correction! It is better to blend them as 1, then only apply the correction! there is totally no need for EQ on Green Curve or Red Curve. The subs placement are already in a position of “I Help you, You help Me”. Unnecessary EQ applied and this is the problem as it takes away the headroom and introduces distortion in the transient response due to corrections on every single sub to meet the targeted 75db curve. The results is something that contradict natural sound, which imo is easily heard on the anthem AVM90. You can also easily see from the spectrogram above, the timing is not as good for subwoofer decay. While it does look good in terms of freq response of each sub, they are actually adding time/phase distortion unnecessarily to all 4 subs channel. this is why i saw a higher THD number at 90db measurements. Imagine im looking to achieve 115 DB from the subs, that is scary distortion number.
Solution ? Yes! i found one solution. That is to EQ the Subs as 1. or Dual Mono. Ill come to that later.
On auto phase, again i found the feature is good to have, but quality of blending from subs to mains is not as good, again. what it did was to shift the phase of subs to blend with the mains. but the problem with this approach is, it only shifts the phase of 2 subs, the other 2 subs do not shift. So imagine all 4 subs are blended, but only sub 1 & 3 has a phase shift. whilst it blends to mains, we are back to square 1, the 4 subs are no longer optimal before autophase as it now has a phase shift. hmmmm
On Room Perfect
It is blending all subs correctly, i can see a favourable response on amplitude, decay and THD from all 4 subs. The blending of mains to subs is also done correctly on Room Perfect. i can see a perfect summation between subs and mains and all 4 subs shift the same time. RP is also time focused when blending subs and mains+subs, it is far far superior to ARC.
Now day before yesterday i had the dilemma.
MP50- better room correction, better blending of subs, better integration of mains+subs. Poor clarity and details
AVM90 - better midrange clarity, details, upper frequencies decay. Poor blending of multisub.
The solution was to blend the subs as 1, and dont allow ARC to correct every single peak and fix some of the dips where possible. i do not want the programme to EQ before blending the sub, i want the programme to EQ the subs after blending them in. So i manually blended the subs, and only send 2 signal out, one to the seas pair, another to the seatons stacked pair. That way, there is no unnecessary EQ applied for every single sub.
The results were great!!! it Worked!!
Stay tune, more to follow… back to work now
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I hear you, i have the exact same dilemma. you are right, we are at the mercy of ARC. There is no way we can have any options for PEQ or high/low shelf filters.
I have turned off room gain, deep bass boost. instead im using amplifier LF boost and amplifier power to compensate for room gain. That helps with Headroom in the digital domain. when you boost with the software, there is some lost in headroom in the digital domain. It is better to use more amplifier power, it is a better approach to preserve headroom in the digital domain. you have LFE signal and re-directed bass all going into that signal
the seatons have this option for “house curve” on its amplifier, like this below:
Thank God all speaker power amplifiers have delay options, so i can manually blend all subs as 1 before ARC Genesis
you can find post adjusted settings on the ARC file, what corrections were applied to every channel, so that is fine, it works as intended.
and i love the fact you can choose every single speaker to correct up to a given freq
in my case, i corrected up to 5khz for the centre speakers which is behind the AT screen. I kept the mains EQed to 200hz, so thats a fantastic feature i love about the ARC
If only 2 signal tat renders the 4 sub outputs redundant
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Not exactly… it predicts what it thinks the result will be - NOT ACTUAL.
So it may or may not works as intended - ie actual measurement to validate that indeed the correction resulted in what it predicts. This is what I meant by “validation”.
I’m not sure how much “correction” is actually accurate…
In my case, I retained the same default 5kHz correction freq range and
ARC showed the predicted result as below:
ie the corrected curve (white pink line) is supposed to be I dunno, ±2dB max from the target curve (black line).
However below is the actual from REW.
It seems the peak and dips are still very much ±5dB;
Maybe they are using a higher level of smoothing…
It is always good to be able to show hard data to support subjective perception. In any case, actual perceive sound is much better with ARC “on” vs “off” which is the most impt thing
The truth is I have no idea how you came to these conclusions because I do not notice feel or hear everything you describe and it is quite strange that nothing from what you have described reflects the result which I have in my listening space.
But this is your opinion and personal feeling and for that I have no ability to challenge it.
What’s yours is yours.
yes, that is what i think, it doesnt do a very good job blending 4 subs. Lets look at the Post calibrated results when 4 dedicated sub outs are used vs 2 dedicated sub outs used. (2 is done via a XLR Splitter cable, connecting the seatons pair as 1 and the line array pair as 1)
splitter like this below
the one in blue below is when using 4 dedicated sub pre-outs post ARC, and the one in red, is where i blend in the pairs, and do no let ARC correct every individual sub, it corrects for the seatons pair LR as “1” and the line array pairs LR as “1”
a lot nicer on the red. Observe the red arrows (hand drawn), those are the room modes in my room. notice the red curve with 2 subs having dips and slight dips in these areas ? these are not necessarily a bad thing. it means the bass is much stronger at these frequencies in other parts of the room. Sometimes when seated at MLP, if the room modes are not attenuated, you can hear them at MLP. the measurements above were taken at MLP location.
On the contrary, look at blue, why is there a dip at 25-35hz? there is no room modes there? i wouldnt want ARC to blend it that way, i will be missing all the special effects that is heavily centred in this region from 25-35hz for most movies, that is a big blow
now if you look at before EQ of the pair , vs after ARC EQ of the pair…
it does a good job. so its working nicely as intended when blending a pair of subs. Just that when it comes to 4 dedicated subs blending, it is still not as good as Lyngdorf’s room perfect. when it comes to blending 2 subs, it does the job. So you wont see this problem, unless you have more than 2 subs.
i suspect it might be better, if we use a single sub preout and let arc correct all subs as “1”, but this approach is only if you have the means to measure and an outboard EQ for delays. For now, im happy to blend the pairs as it is, it sounded really good when done this way.
i watched alien covenant , the high frequencies decay is superb… the delay on high frequencies very long… dragged out… so it’s very nice… this dragged out decay, doesn’t mask anything … so it’s really good… the water trickling down from the cave , hitting the amulet pendant , that sound …. Tik tik tik, hitting the pendant… super good… straight away your focus is on the pendant, then u see the pendant, there is a name there…
i watched a quiet place, the dynamics were superb, the creature creating that funny noise, extends all the way to the left and clock ticking scene from the surrounds, just effortless
For those who have been to my place for the demo on the lyngdorf and if u liked that, u will thrilled when you listen to this anthem AVM90, it takes it up a few notches.
yes and another downside, is the remote! the remote is pretty lousy… very hard to press… hmmm
apart from blending of subs, blending of subs with mains and the remote, everything else is superior. Love the sound signature, fantastic!!
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have you tried comparing the AVM90 vs MP-40 ? just play a few familiar scenes, with midrange clarity without any EQ. You should be able to distinguish them on the spot…
Too bad u live in Israel, otherwise i can host you…
that is not correct, it doesnt just predict, it actually shows you what is corrected.
you need to turn it on under review, “Show ARC Adjustment”. you can see ARC Adjusment made to your specific speaker and the EQ applied in Green for that particular speaker or subwoofer
in my case above as you can see, i didnt correct for main speakers above schroeder frequencies, so you can see that the green line is a straight line from 200hz onwards.
Solid works! enjoy bro!
Wow lots info.
Once u settle down need visit u with u new sofa.
PS: I just share my personal analysis for AVM series but it’s AVM 70 - I love the midrange too with clarity and details.
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My dealer has not yet received the AVM-90, he says it should get ready for next week.
Before purchasing the MP-40, I tested it with the following processors:
1: AVM-70
2: JBL SDP-55
3: ARCAM AV-40
As I noted before the AVM-70 did not have a significant advantage over the MRX-1140 so it was dropped from the chapter.
The JBL and the Arkam sounded to me very similar in terms of the Sunni quality which they presented and were very very good … very detailed separations and they produced a very impressive bass level and each of them had the DLBC of Dirac powered but I had a lot of issues regarding the stability of the device … Microphone not recognized by the calibration system, difficulty in uploading the calibration file to Mr. and even after uploading the file the file was not recorded in the device.
And the weird thing is that the problems were the same in both ARCAM and JBL SDP-55 so they were ruled out even though when the calibration was successful they sound amazing.
In the Lingdorf exam everything was easier and very simple and intuitive and in my opinion gave the best result … The bass management is amazing and very impressive and in my opinion the best I have heard in my life.
The separations are amazing and the whole combination of the bass and the overall result I got was very very very impressive to me … I am by nature very skeptical and every test I perform I perform it I completely rule out psycho-acoustic effects and comes very neutral in approach and uncompromising and makes no assumptions to any brand It is pumped marketing.
Honestly it was not too difficult a deliberation for me in making my decision and as evidence I chose the Lingdorf MP-40 which in my opinion gave my listening space the best results.
I believe and am sure that the AVM-90 is a crazy and amazing device which is going to be one of the best processors ever made. And congratulations to Anthem who continue to maintain a very high level and indeed is a super quality alternative to manufacturers such as:
LYNGDORF
TRINNOV
STORM-AUDIO
They deserve one huge nose.
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yes you are correct in your assessment, i have the same findings, in terms of bass quality and integration, the Room perfect win hands down. No questions about that. It takes longer to run room perfect, but the end results of blending subs, and then integrating them with mains is very good. if you dont have acoustic treatment in your listening room, there is no doubt the room perfect will be the better choice. heck even with room treatment, it was still better
the AVM90 is really fantastic if subwoofers blend nicely, that is the biggest challenge IMO with anthem processors
both have their strengths… im quite neutral with my personal findings, as i have both units and will need to decide which to sell later
im still testing at this stage… i gotta make sure im absolutely satisfied before selling. now tempted to try EQ’ing all 4 subs as 1… but for the next few days, ill just be patient and try and do some listening before i proceed to do that next
Music sounds fantastic on the AVM90, dont need to use oppo 205 for music…
In my experience you will always choose the one that suits you best.
Now I will ask for your help in the post I created in Lingdorf’s group … I need help and guidance.
Thanks in advance Moshe.
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Rest assured, ARC is applying correction filters accurately, so no issues. I’ll share the results of before and after ARC correction on the centre speaker. The centre speaker is tucked behind an AT screen, so there is some attenuation from the screen, that was easily corrected by ARC genesis. Happy to confirm the correction filters are working as intended
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No problem mate, I’ll try my best
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Thanks Roni for the detailed breakdown and analysis. This is the key takeaway I got from your review…this is not good as the key selling point or “differentiator” of the flagship AVM 90 compared to AVM 70 and the MRX 1140 is the ability to independently calibrate for 4 individual subs. It should “theoretically” correct each single subs from where their respective location is. If you have to resort to pairing up the 4 subwoofers as 2 pairs and worse is that you discovered the auto-phase correction feature are only correctly only 1 subwoofer from the 2 pairs (if I understand you correctly???), that is not good. Fortunately, in my case, I have 3 subwoofers and since I only have 2 independent subwoofer outputs, I am forced to do “pairing” and like you mentioned, it works great when ARC Genesis does its job.
As for more granular and finesse control over the freq, I guess the limit in the number of filters applied in ARC Genesis has something to do with it. There is a limit. My advice is NOT to overdo the correction of your freq beyond 5Khz. Stick to the Schroeder freq range correction will yield better results with tighter filters compared to a wider spread across full range correction (i.e. 20Khz).
Based on your last post, it seems to me that you have a winner in mind…and it rhymes with our “National A…m”…coincide with our upcoming National B’day. 
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So far, a lot of emphasis has been made on the subwoofer blending with the mains. Equally important is how the subwoofers are able to blend in with the rest of the speakers in the system…and based on my personal experience, ARC Genesis does it in an effortless manner and that’s what matters.
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Can’t agreed more with that sentiment !!!
Don’t worry, the ARC Genesis is still at beta stage and hopefully user feedback and Anthem’s engineers will continue to perfect their algorithm in due course. The product life cycle of an Anthem product usually lasted 5 years, so expect more software updates to come along.
On a separate note, I will like to pay you a visit to see how your AVM 90 sounds at your place…PM me when you free. I’m usually free during the weekends, mostly Sat.
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