HDfury Vertex2 related

[Ronildoq]

I think we are missing this thread.

I just love the quality of LLDV, I’ve now completed testing and found that LLDV is nicer in every way, be it for colour, contrast, shadow details, specular highlights … everything just falls into place with LLDV

Using Xbox series X, EDID with profile 10 Sony rec2020

With the new pj LG AU810PB, it is very easy to tell between HDR10 vs LLDV. The tone mapping is very good on this PJ, instantly we can see the benefits when we engage LLDV

Just completed testing both, HDR 4k 60hz 4:4:4 10bit 375mhz signal… cannot beat LLDV at 12 but 593mhz

The specular highlights are superb without eye fatigue

Yes you read that right, LLDV combo dynamic tone mapping from the LG projector AU810PB is first class !

I still find the need to keep the HD fury especially for streaming , it’s massive improvement what LLDV brings to the set up

Even on SDR, they look fantastic , very natural, sending a rec709 4:4:4 435mhz signal, damn damn good even for streaming

If there is one thing we need to set, we need to use REC2020, not DCI-P3

Max luminance to 4000nits
min Luminance 0.005

MaxCLL 1000
MaxFALL 400

Very very good. DCI-P3 doesn’t look good, it looks wrong as far as colour goes

just go with REC2020 for HDR , won’t go wrong

[ricky101]

I recently acquired the Vertex2 after reading many of the posting from fellow enthuaist in Sg.
It is one complicated piece of equipment and I’m not yet getting a good experience from it.
Maybe you can assist with some tips;

In it’s default, when I switch sources (I currently only have 2) from HTPC to AppleTV and back to HTPC, I will lose connection. If I unplug and replug back the HDMI, it comes back (at times, it needed a few retries).

I tried enabling the HTPC setting - doesn’t help.

I played around with other settings, strangely some when I enabled, I get an immediate reaction, ie the display darkens and color intensified but when I unchecked it, it does not return to before (ie “Enable Film Maker Mode”).

@Ronildoq

Even on SDR, they look fantastic , very natural, sending a rec709 4:4:4 435mhz signal, damn damn good even for streaming

On your above post about LLDV, does it means you are using the HDFury to convert non LLDV signal to LLDV before passing it to your projector?
Where do you set this?

[Ronildoq]

Hi Ricky, congrats on your new toy !

The first thing to check , is your hdmi cable . Are u using a proper certified hdmi cable? 99% of the problem is with the hdmi cable

For long runs above 4m, using a fiber optic hdmi cable is recommended. Anything less than 4m, use copper based hdmi cable. But I would recommend using 2m hdmi cables. Anything below 2m hdmi cables, u will have interference issues.

Good Brand’s are like the moshou “peak version” that’s using the latest German chip

Other short ones u can use zeskit certified hdmi

[Ronildoq]

@ricky101

On your above post about LLDV, does it means you are using the HDFury to convert non LLDV signal to LLDV before passing it to your projector?
Where do you set this?

When u go into EDID settings, if your player allows for Dolby vision processing, you can set this at the source player.

So example in your Oppo 205/203, in video settings, choose player led dolby processing. On the vertex, go to edid, use profile 10, which is Sony A1 LLDV REC2020, do not use Sony A1 DCI-P3. That’s just incorrect. On Xbox series X and ATV4K, this is already defaulted to player led LLDV

When u do that, your pj which is incapable of Dolby vision ( no projector can do native Dolby processing at the time of writing), will now be able to communicate with the Oppo 205/203, with the Oppo now thinking the display is Dolby capable and will apply the Dolby processing algorithm to the signal . This is what we want to take advantage of.

There are 2 key areas. One is the quality of projector itself doing the tone mapping. Another is bandwidth on that hdmi port it is connected to.

To run a full 4:2:2 chroma, 4k, LLDV 12 bit 59.3fps signal, u will need a bandwidth of 17.8++ gbps. This means u need a solid good quality hdmi cable that can actually do the full 18gbps without hiccups . A certified cable or at least one that is tested to be working

Despite applying the LLDV at source, I applied a secondary dynamic tone mapping on my PJ. This proved to be working wonders on my set up. I didn’t have this experience in the past with my previous PJ. When the PJ is very good, you can see the difference between 10bit chroma 4:2:0 vs LLDV 12 bit chroma 4:2:2. All u need to do is pause the pic, switch the edid between HDR10 and LLDV and you will understand what I’m talking about . This will all make sense if only the projector has been calibrated for grayscale & colour accuracy in HDR mode

Once u get the pj calibrated for HDR, u will benefit with the vertex2, u will be enjoying both SDR and HDR in 12bit colour depth. Lotsa improvements over HDR10

So yes, the equipment cannot do wonders, if the display is not calibrated. I was struggling to spot the difference between HDR10 and LLDV with my previous projector. With the LG, with such good tone mapping on the pj, everything is easy to identify and I finally understood what all these means .

Chroma, 4k, colour depth, and frames per . second. These are the 4 key elements

On the next round when situation improves, I’ll host the demo. This time for those who hasn’t experienced the line array woofers and I’ll include video…

Be warned, it is damn No turning back once u have experienced it

U will also not need a lumagen pro if you take this path… save $$

[sammy]

Just to note. JVC projector users can use DCI P3 because the JVC can be set to it. Most projector’s can’t. They can also load a custom curve

[ricky101]

Thanks for the quick and detailed response !
Appreciate it.

@Ronildoq

On the next round when situation improves, I’ll host the demo. This time for those who hasn’t experienced the line array woofers and I’ll include video…

I’ll be looking fwd to that - there’s probably quite a bit of limitation on the mileage I can get from my current setup as I do not have reliable means to calibrate + current projector limitations (no option to save multiple profiles or access gamma settings)…

Life is all about living with limitations and compromises, let’s see how far I can push given existing situation

[Ronildoq]

@ricky101

I’ll be looking fwd to that - there’s probably quite a bit of limitation on the mileage I can get from my current setup as I do not have reliable means to calibrate + current projector limitations (no option to save multiple profiles or access gamma settings)…

Life is all about living with limitations and compromises, let’s see how far I can push given existing situation

Ya it’s always good to exchange ideas, that’s the best ! There is always something to learn from each other

Actually if u get the LG laser Pj, all u need is good HDR colorimeter , u don’t even need to hire a professional calibrator. Just follow the step by step workflow and u will enjoy fantastic SDR and HDR video . Need patience and perseverance but u will get there

Life is about living to the fullest, enjoy life! But of course within ones own means. if I find the limitations , I will work towards unlocking it, until I am satisfied . If I find I need to compromise, I will find out why and if I really need to ? It’s true to some extent, but it should not be a show stopper taking you forward . Compromise in a relationship, husband wife, family, maybe yes… but video audio stuff ? Nah… don’t need to compromise … go for the one that will satisfy u … because life is short … today I’m around, I don’t know if I’ll be around tomorrow

For me, I’m not a Rolex guy, or a BMW guy, I have a Casio watch, they tell me the same time. I drive a Mazda 6, I can reach China town the same time. I don’t need to spend so much there. But for certain things with benefits I will not hesitate. If I find a subwoofer I like, I will go for it, if I find a processor I love, I will go for it… if the amplifier after upgrade provides Low noise and I’m hearing tons of details, I will go for it… I’m like that…

So yes, it’s all whether or not funds permit or situation permits. If it doesn’t permit, find a way until it permits… lol… push all the way man!! Aja aja fightin!

[ricky101]

@Ronildoq

For me, I’m not a Rolex guy, or a BMW guy, I have a Casio watch, they tell me the same time. I drive a Mazda 6, I can reach China town the same time. I don’t need to spend so much there. But for certain things with benefits I will not hesitate.

we share pretty much the same philosophy on how we spend money…
my issue is that I’ve a long list of ‘passions’ from photography/videography, mountain biking, snowboarding, IT gadgets, fine dining… all are $$ draining…

@Ronildoq

Life is about living to the fullest, enjoy life! But of course within ones own means.

And thus, I tried to balance as best as I can on the $$ allocation to the various “sinks”

[Ronildoq]

@ricky101

photography/videography, mountain biking, snowboarding, IT gadgets, fine dining… all are $$ draining…

Oh that’s nice. I enjoy good animal photos as well. Love to enjoy a lot of the pics and skills from photographers … so many nice ones. But I’m not good at it. I just enjoy looking at the pics . Snowboarding is fun too but we can’t travel … Hahahaha

It’s true, a lot of stuff require spending, gotta be thrifty too… tough times ahead…

[Ronildoq]

Most of the problem associated with video is not on the HD fury, it’s mainly the cables. If u r in the market for hdmi cable, this version is good . Highly recommended, from Moshou

Built quality is superb, doesn’t cost a bomb, if u buy a few pieces it’s way cheaper.

It comes with certification and works well in data transmission.

Remember, use 2m version if possible. That is the best length for hdmi cable. You need not use fiber for 2m lengths. If require longer lengths , more than 4m, then go for fiber cables to preserve signal integrity

[Ronildoq]

This is also good, if u don’t like moshou, a 2m version from zeskit is also tested and proven to be very good , about $20 bucks for the 2m

Solid core , hdmi certification and good connectivity

Before you check the firmware or think it’s the HD fury, check the cable first…. 99% of the problems are related to hdmi cable

[ricky101]

Took you advice and ordered a few moshou - will see if it helps sort out some nagging issues;

I’ve few instances where I had to disconnect and reconnect (esp on htpc) in order to get the signal back;

Also I will get audio drops when skipping FF or REW on a video during playback; I had to switch audio tracks 1-2 times in order to get it back - only happens to TrueHD Atmos,… the lower DD no issue

[Ronildoq]

Yea the moshou peak version fiber , zeskit is also good. Both tested and verified by me using the Xbox series X

No issues passing the signal, smooth sailing….

Very good, I highly recommend it.

I’m very happy with the HD fury now, it’s a keeper. The LLDV quality is superb. When the Projector is good and calibrated for HDR, we can really see the benefits clearly

I just continued documentary last night, really drool

[Ronildoq]

Next up will be the HD Fury VRROOM !!

Stay tuned on this one, check out the video below, coming soon. Will get my hands on this from Ovation when it arrives !

World First HDMI2.1 8K VRR adapter!
8K VRROOM allows ANY HDMI source FULL AUDIO signal to be extracted and forwarded to ANY eARC/ARC or HDMI sound system for up to Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby MAT Atmos, DTS-X, DTS-HD Master Audio and older formats. Shipping of the smartest converter solution for interoperability between any HDMI sources and any HDMI display or any HDMI/ARC/eARC sound systems is expected on November 1st, 2021.

Hardware-wise, the 8K VRROOM central is featuring 4 HDMI inputs, 2 HDMI video output with scaling option and 2 dedicated HDMI full audio outputs, one for ARC/eARC sound system and one for any 720p or 1080p capable HDMI sound system, LAN Control, RS232, L/R stereo or Optical up to DD+ 7.1 output, IR RX, IR sensor, IR window, OLED display and 4 buttons on the side allowing to enter/exit and perform change in the device system menu. 8K VRROOM offers an unique relay port to begin our journey in automation.
All inputs are capable of 4K and 8K VRR/HDR/HLG/DV/LLDV/HDR10+ up to FRL5/40Gbps/1200MHz for video and support any sound format in existence today, HDMI TX0 and TX1 video outputs are capable of outputting FRL5/40Gbps/1200MHz and all sound formats as well. 8K VRROOM is running in a Matrix/Scaler default mode ensuring your setup remains optimized at its best capabilities, you can however select any other operating modes at any time, switcher, splitter, pass-thru, etc…

Software-wise, 8K VRROOM provides you full control via LAN connection and the embedded HDfury webserver !
You can use any web browser based device such as any computer, tablet or smartphone on the same network to access to control and update the 8K VRROOM Central, the process is as easy as visiting a web page.
All HD fury legacy features remain present, each input EDID can be set individually from a list of 100 EDID, HDCP conversion, Scaling and signal operations such as Chroma/Color depth/Color space, HDR metadata manager, LLDV datablock editor, PJ&Display macro, Infoframes modes, CEC command, ARC/eARC, HTPC mode, special modes, VRR and normal signal sound extraction, TMDS switching for all inputs to autoswitch sources such as ATV4K, X1X or Shield that no other switch on the market are able to autoswitch. Additionally 8K VRROOM can physically cut any output power via software trigger.

All setup informations are visible at first sight via OLED, On Screen Display or Webserver. 8K VRROOM is the smart solution and converter for interoperability between any HDMI revision equipment, for content creators, calibrators, streamers, digital entertainment centers, FUHD TV, UHDTV retail, show sites, data centers, schools, conference or home cinema and much more.

Pre-release demo video (click to open in a new browser tab):

1. Xbox serie X playing game called “CONTROL” at FRL5: 4K120 to LG CX TV for video and with Atmos sound to SONOS Arc

[Wind]

Me too want one!

[Oakman]

Hi Ronildog and AVD members,

I have been searching for a solution for my setup and ran across this forum. I just joined and would like to say hello to everyone. Hope you would provide me with your guidance/feedback. Sorry, not sure if I should start the new thread or continue with this one as both the HD Fury Vertex 2 and VRROOM are mentioned infra. Please let me know.

1. Current Setup. My setup is through an HDMI Switch/Matrix with an audio extraction functionality via Optical output (EZ-MX42PRO-HAS; hereinafter referred to as “switch”).
   a. Panasonic DP-UB820 Blu-ray player is connected to the HDMI input #1 of the said switch
   b. Apple TV 4K is connected to the HDMI input #2 of the said switch
   c. Roku Ultra is connected to the HDMI input #3 of the said switch
   d. HDMI output of said switch is connected to an Epson 4K Projector
   e. Optical output of the said switch is connected to an optical-to-HDMI converter to the Soundbar. I test out individually with 1) Sonos Beam and 2) Beosound Stage. I borrow the Stage from my friend to test. I do not have the Sonos Arc to try out. It is a big investment.

2. Issues:
   a. No sound from Apple TV: via wired connection to both Sonos and Beosound. The only way I can have sound from the Apple TV is to go to the “Audio Output” option of the Apple TV → Temporary Audio → Choose the Sonos or Beosound. I get sound only for wireless/Airplay, but no sound for wired connection. I guess both the Sonos and Beosound Stage cannot detect or process the audio signal format sent by the Apple TV.
   b. I have sound via wired connection from both Roku and Panasonic Blu-ray player to the Sonos Beam, but no sound to the Beosound. I look at the B&O App, I see nothing playing.
   c. I changed different audio formats, plugged the HDMI directly to the “Audio only HDMI” and “Audio & Video HDMI” outputs of the Panasonic Blu-ray to the Beosound. No sound.

3. My solution from online research only (not actual testings). I think either the Vertex 2 + Arcana or the newly released Vrroom would be the solution to my sound issues. The advantages would be two fold: a) LLDV (as Ronildog described supra) and b) stereo/5.1/7.1 sound or even Atmos. For instance with the Vrroom, which has two separate HDMI outputs: 1) HDMI video output (to my projector) and 2) ARC/eARC audio HDMI output (to my soundbar: Sonos or Beosound)

I do not know for sure if this would work as I do not have a local dealer to try it out. It is very tempting to order it from HDFury.com to test it. If it works, it is worth the price. Perhaps, furthermore I should start collecting coins for the prospect of the Atmos sound of the Arc. Much appreciate that you share your thoughts/guidance: 1) on the sound issues and 2) how to get LLDV for my Epson Projector.

Thanks much in advance!
Mike

[desray]

@Oakman

Issues:
a. No sound from Apple TV: via wired connection to both Sonos and Beosound. The only way I can have sound from the Apple TV is to go to the “Audio Output” option of the Apple TV → Temporary Audio → Choose the Sonos or Beosound. I get sound only for wireless/Airplay, but no sound for wired connection. I guess both the Sonos and Beosound Stage cannot detect or process the audio signal format sent by the Apple TV.

For the LLDV for Epson, that’s easy if you decide to get the Vertex 2…as long as your content has DV, Vertex 2 will do the rest. What intrigues me is the no audio part for ATV. What’s your audio output settings on your ATV? Take a screenshot and share.

I don’t use switch but here’s my ATV audio setting. It should be relatively simple and select TV speakers as the default.

[Ronildoq]

Hi mike,
Welcome!

Not sure what type of switch you are using but I can confirm the vertex2 will work in most scenarios.

If u intend to use the hd fury vertex2 or Vroom, u can also use TX0 output to the hdmi input(arc/eARC) port. Some projectors like the Lg AU810PB laser projector has a hdmi 2.1 port that is compatible with eARC (hdmi 3). I’m not sure about Epson as I do not own Epson. Maybe look for the arc sign at the back of the projector and connect it to that one. With ARC/eARC, sometimes there are teething issues. The idea is that the device must only see one source for ARC/eARC within the network. If it sees 2, most of the time there will be problems with sound

I’m looking to offload the vertex2 soon, and getting in the VROOM, waiting for our local distributor to confirm. As I am trying to support our local distributor . I believe it will work as well. See if u can get a loan unit to test out? Contact winwin or lookup ovation United

In order to take advantage of LLDV, you can try and use the custom EDID for Sony REC2020, profile 10 on the hd fury. That will work as long as the source is DV, it will use the dolby algorithm for processing

ATV4K does it slightly differently, it sends out a pcm signal. So decoding is done on the source player itself. It doesn’t send out a digital signal for the AVR to process. So Some avr have compatibility issues with ATV4K, it is a known problem. The AvR company needs to fix it with a firmware update

I have a very old Xbox 360. Some old games in it. So for that case, I send the hdmi video directly to the vertex2 then out to PJ. And ARC dolby digital into the processor

What I always do is I send all video signals directly to pj. The processor does nothing other than processing sound only. There is no video signal going into the processor to try and reduce jitter as much.

Audio latency on the hd fury is 0.001ms, insignificant. So no problem routing it that way.

I have compared the video LLDV vs HDR10, I find 12bit colours are so much nicer and contrast is superb when using the dolby algorithm, that is why I am keeping the hd fury in the chain. Else everything would have gone directly to the pj.

I can recommend the hd fury vertex2 or VrOOm, the CS support is excellent . Almost everything will work, I believe it will for your case as well

[Oakman]

Hi Desray and Ronildog,
Much appreciate your responses.
Based on my online research and your feedback, I placed an order for the Vrroom (though it’s quite pricey, but it’d be more economical as compared to the vertex 2 + arcana).

1. I do not have good experiences with configuring an hdfury edid switch. Could you please show me with screenshots/step wise how to set up to get LLDV?
2. I think based on your real life experience and my limited knowledge from online research, the Vrroom would theoretically solve my no-sound problem (of course until we have the Vrroom for hands on testings). While waiting for the delivery of the Vrroom, would you have any ideas as to why my current setup fails?
3. audio output to ATV is TV Speakers
4. audio format is “auto” or “stereo”. No sound
   Thanks,
   Mike

[Ronildoq]

Yes I can share the screen shots of my vertex2, when u get your vroom. And hopefully able to provide simple to understand instructions. Pretty straight forward stuff.

Have u tried sending audio straight from ATV to the tv ? Do u get sound out from the Apple TV when connecting directly to the tv speakers. If u get sound out from ATV directly to tv, then u have the answers as to why it is failing… if u have another equipment sitting in between, highly likely the source of the problem is the switch