AV/HT/Hifi Rebuild

I’m not “new” but I’m no expert either. On sound, I’ve played with hifi for over 20yrs from my 1st “hifi” which is simply an AIWA mini-compo to tdy’s setup - a 20yrs journey. So stereo is pretty much dialed in… HT is kinda 60-40… knowing some basic fundamentals but applying in real world is another monster all together.

Video wise, that’s something I’m pretty “new” to esp on the calibration side. If playing with SDR, I’m quite happy with out of the box performance on 90% of the cases… HDR is a different animal that I’ve yet to confidently wrestle with.

Let me articulate the reasons on what I meant by efficient. And why I think those foam based absorbers are inefficient. This is important, as I’m very sure it brings more harm than good to any set up

For the benefit of anyone who is interested in bringing the best out of their system, and precisely the reason I have mentioned that there are 1001 advises online, one really needs to be savvy and follow the right methodology. It’s also why we see there are so many internet doctors and some people actually fall for it, like the sad case of the lady who used ivermectin and landed in hospital. So in short, it’s important to find out and get the information and facts correct and to understand the fundamentals of acoustics

  1. Efficiency. The first thing we need to understand is, these supposedly foam type of bass traps, are not really bass traps. They trap nothing down from 200hz. A quick test from rew and u can confirm this yourself . It not only doesn’t improve your frequency response , it will do absolutely nothing with decay times down Low frequencies. If you pull out the energy RT60 times, u will find it sucks away useful energy in the room.a guitar that sounds Dengggggggggg will suddenly sound deg, and the room will sound dead.

  2. Pressure zones. Almost all problems in the room, are related to Low frequencies <<150hz, or below Schroeder frequencies in that given room. We cannot run away from this. The highest pressure zones in the room, are trihedral and dihedral sections of the room, this means the corners and the ceilings and side walls where 2 or 3 section meets. You will have tons of issues <150hz that you will need an effective bass trap at these locations . Don’t get confused with sound velocity, speed of sound. Sound pressure is different, it gets accumulated at corners of the room

  3. Material used. Why foam is bad and exactly why i mentioned it is useless. The fundamentals to understand is air molecules vibration. If u are using a foam, there is no room for the air molecules to vibrate, instead porous absorbers like rockwool or mineral wool provides “breathing” space for these air molecules to vibrate against its fiber and in the process converting that energy to heat efficiently. Hence the use of the word” efficient. So is rockwool or mineral wool better than foam ? It mostly is. What most people don’t understand is that, it is not the density of the material that matters, it is the air flow resistivity that matters. Is a 20cm thick rockwool 100kg density better at Low end absorption or 20cm 60kg density being much more efficient? The latter is the answer, why ?because it allows for better air flow resistivity. That leads to the next point

  4. Air flow resistivity. Why do you see people leaving an air gap behind their panels? This is precisely the reason. The size of the air gap should be exactly the size of the bass trap for it to be as efficient. So if your panels are 20cm thick, it is best to have a 20cm air gap behind it, that way, the Low end absorption is equal across the frequency band, but doubled its coefficient absorption rate. This is explained above in point 3, as the friction in air molecules against the fibers will convert it to heat. U get so save $$ because u don’t need to fill up that entire 20cm gap with rockwool again

  5. Quantity matters. The bigger the room, the more is required and the higher the efficiency of the panels, the better. Is it enough to use 1 piece of efficient panel at the bottom trihedral corner ? A very efficient panel? The answer is no. You need to fill up the entire corner !! There is no two ways about it. In this case, both quality and quantity matters. U can fill up an entire room with the foam panels and u will find that it still does nothing treating the Low end. So imagine, how important it is to get an efficient panel, and in quantity , because once u fill up the corners with inefficient panels, u no longer have space to use an effective panel at that spot.

  6. An effective panel. What makes an effective panel u ask? The answer is one that is built to have good air flow resistivity. Foam based absorbers don’t have good air flow resistivity, hence rendering it inefficient for use as bass traps. It cannot be even classified as a bass trap. A layer a limp mass membrane in front of the porous absorbers, wrapped with acoustic fabric, helps a great deal with Low frequencies absorption. If u add a 6mm BAD like panel in front, it not only deflects mid high frequencies, it also increases the absorption co-efficient, so the porous absorbers/rockwool behind, works harder with absorption . The layer of thin ply, also works as a “Pressure Plate” to further break down the pressure. The 3rd benefit is then it lowers the noise floor. In layman terms, let’s see this diagram

See the logic behind. This is without scatter plate, and with air gap. The frequency, hits the rockwool, slows down, then hits the wall, reflect back, hits the rockwool again then comes out. By the time it goes through this process, that energy is converted to heat. The energy decays faster because it no longer lingers and bounces around in the room. The decay is faster because there is an air gap and the air velocity is moving twice towards the rockwool , first hit slow, second hit, reflect and slow down further

When the BAD( Binary Amplitude Diffusor) is front , see what happens above

The BAD ply in front now, breaks this up, scatters it so the rockwool has more surface area to cover, that means your rockwool 120cm x 60 cm panel, is now working harder, its covering more surface area after this break up. The Low frequencies still go through, due to its long wavelength, but now the game changing thing is the “break up”, the panels are effectively working harder now. The results are tight midbass and upper bass. Very controlled midbass

Most qualified experienced acousticians understand this.but , dont just blindly follow my advise as well, do some research yourself and you will find everything I have mentioned above makes sense. This is how I improve my set up over time, whenever I experience improvement , I execute. So what is equally important, is to be able to execute it. No use if you have planned everything and know what to do but in the end due to WAF not able to execute anything. This is one difficulty many face, another is $$. Most not willing to spend $$ on acoustics. That’s the problem and they are contented with some foam hanging around in the room and claiming it be effective. Nothing wrong because that is their room and as long as one one is able to satisfy themselves believing it to be effective , that is perfectly fine. But for the minor few who are all out to improve the set up, this might interest you.

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Ya, a lot of guys tell me, stereo is very difficult to dial in. Much more difficult than HT. For me having played around with both, I find HT to be much much more challenging. Why ? It’s simply because you are dealing with so many speakers whilst in stereo you are dealing with only 2 speakers. Almost always if you get the stereo dialed in correctly, it will sound as good for HT. The more speakers you add into the room, the more you have to deal with the problems and that 2 channel is also equally important with the centre channel, for HT.

Then comes hdr calibration, this is also damn challenging as you would have realised by now. My advise is get one that comes with auto calibration, you will be very satisfied, especially the ones like calman


The above is calibrated hdr in LLDV from Apple TV+ programme, absolutely delighted post auto cal… it is fantastic , I’m always smiling when I fire the system up. Worth it

More accurately from my understanding is nt quantity but surface area. But in much bigger spaces, the challenge with lower frequencies is not as demanding. Treatments are more balance btw treating the high freq reflection as well as low. Whereas in small rooms, a lot more effort is needed to treat the lower registers esp around the room nodes.

The major challenge (as I am currently trying to address) is the conflicting relationship… the smaller the room the more low freq treatment needed yet to address them with adsorbers you need very thick panels that robs you of the available useable space.

My understanding is that what is really necessary is enough absorption to get the require fq response decay ie RT60 ACROSS THE ENTIRE SPECTRUM - very much to your pt#1, whereby the excessive absorbers causes a lopsided decrease in higher freq energies whereby the bass energies were not addressed.

The imbalance in the lower register at MLP is managed with multiple subs and PEQ to flatten the curve.

In bigger spaces, I do not see this as a need. The various demo rooms I’ve visited, I heard very decent and some impressive bass performances while noting the absence of giant bass traps or acoustic panels.

Managed to update the top view layout:

  1. 1st reflection ray-trace of LCR to visualize and identify areas to treat
  2. Super impose speaker horz spread (per manufacturer specs) - optimum sound field coverage
  3. Sizing and positioning of treatment panels
  4. Absorbers at 1st pt of incidences (main area)
  5. Diffuser with absorbers backing for rest of treated area.

since the absorption coefficient for lower freq tend to be much lower, item 5 will reflect the higher freq while passing lower freq to be absorbed.

Below the side view layout…


Highly conflicted on the designs of diffusers to use… the back wooden QRD does not enable the use of adsorbers

Another problem is probably the asthetics of it… does not convey the kind of elegance look and feel with the “rojak” combination deployed… :grin:

Absolutely spot on. Quantity is so that you can cover the surface area above it. If u had only 1 panel 120x60cm u can only use it at top or bottom. If u have 2 panels of 120x60, u can now stack that. So that’s what quantity refers to. Indirectly means u can cover more surface areas at the corners with more quantity of quality panels. It’s very hard to find someone who can build u a single gigantic trap that can cover from floor to ceiling. Even GIK don’t have it and cost for shopping goes up exponentially with size

All rooms are small, the place we live in, unless we are talking about churches or auditorium etc. our hdb or landed homes, no matter how big 10x 15m big, is considered small and they will all benefit with Low frequencies control. The logic is very simple

To pressurise a big room, u need more subwoofers. The smaller the room, the lesser subwoofers u need to pressurise the room. The more subwoofers u add, the more control u need. Simple logic, so they are correlated. Hence the logic that no matter what room u r in, u will need the Low end control, be it big or small.

Again you got it spot on, u understand the concept of the room needing to have an “even decay rate”, uniformity is your best friend. You are very good my friend, u understand very well the fundamentals of a good sounding room
, :muscle:t2:

If only I had known u earlier, I wouldn’t need to spend so much time finding out all these myself ! Lol

Cheers mate! You are definitely on the right path to nirvana stage , all the best and I look forward to all your postings and what you ultimately deicde to go with in the end. Look forward to visiting you some day also when situation permits and if u don’t mind, it’s always fruitful to exchange ideas

Bro, you’re on the right path.

Thought I’d share some of my experience…

Treat the room to an acceptable level without sacrificing too much on comfort & space. It’s a room you want to enjoy music/movies in. The corners are important areas to treat, but it is not necessary to do up to the extent of a studio control/monitoring/mixing room (unless you really want to). Usable furniture such as solid cupboard or bookshelves at/near the corners can help trap some bass, yet are functional.

Finally, for the lowest register room nodes, traps required would be humongous due to the super long wavelengths. EQ is the best way to deal with these nodes. Frequency peaks can be cut back, nulls are usually difficult to compensate for.

Hope my sharing helps…

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Thanks for the sharing, it reinforced what I already have in plan. I dun intend to have anything else in the room (ie bookshelves etc).

1st priority is to hv the 3 seater :couch_and_lamp: and work everything else around this.

The side walls shud max be 15cm thickness treated, front 20cm. The biggest flexibility I have is the back wall, which I’ll maximise with the bass absorbers - up to 25cm;

Dun hv intention to treat the corners - can’t touch the front as the screen leaves no room for it;
As for the back, I’ll be relocating the electronics there one left corner, the right is the door entrance - thus no way to treat even if I want to.

With that, I’ll have abt 40cm aisles both sides and back with abt 1.5m free space at the front.

The bass nulls shud be addressed by the multiple subs. Will try the layout as per illustrations - alternative is to shift one to the back wall ( or add a 3rd at the back wall).

Will experiment b4 committing final position;
The other spkr positions and treatments would not be affected by where I position the sub as long as I have 55cm clearance from the floor all round.

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Slow process,…
Someone from JD Acoustics help do a RT measurement (FOC) for the room.
Results are below, with predicted RT after ~3k worth of diffusers

Some confirmed purchases…
AT panel from Screen Research (114" instead of 120")
Focal speakers (combi of 1000 series and 300 series - dropping JBL Syn to shave costs)
Anthem AVM70 processor (hard to justify for Storm Audio or Lyngdof). Can always revisit in the future when additional fundings avail itself.

Right now, more funds needed in the fundamental room treatment than initially anticipated.

Wise choice to go for Anthem… You will not regret it. But stock availability can be an issue. AVM70 has some backlog orders to fulfill or so I read. One of my FB pal who had made a full deposit for the AVM70 since Mar this year STILL HAVEN’T GET It. In contrast, I’ve already got mine (MRX1140) about 2 months ago.

If it’s from E77, then his unit could be in the same shipment as my order;
Luckily for me I did not have to go thru the agony of such a long wait.

I even got it at promo price which is 1/3 the price of what’s quoted to me for the Storm Audio ISP Core16.

Yes, there is a promo price which saves you at least $600 plus (at least for my MRX1140).

1st batch of plywood for building the in-wall speakers housing just arrived;


Time to get some carpentry work done this weekend;

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The big boys tools have arrived!
This should speed things up - hopefully;
Sometimes the bottleneck is not the tools but the user :sweat_smile:




Meanwhile, the system is all stacked up at one corner and wrapped with Nippon protective sheets;

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Enjoy!! Have fun! Looking forward to more pics along the way

Some build progress update…


Cut out for the surround speakers.
The circular saw is a must, if not it would have taken me 3-4x the time to do this.


At end of the day, these unfinished work lined the corridors to the room.
It’s a real hassle to do all these bulky carpentry in a HDB! The time to setup and clean up eats into the daily effort.

IMG_9045
Test assembly, surprisingly sturdy with just 2 backets L+R holding it to the wall.


The ceiling atmos load tested with 10kg weights (orange color items inside), it held up overnight, should be very safe.
The actual speakers is just 2.5kg, thus 400% safety factor!

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Very impressive…so you a carpenter by profession?

Wow very nicely done. What’s the target completion date :slight_smile:

Looks great! Worx are really really good tools to have!

No la…
Mechanical engineer by training;
IT Manager by profession;
A very motivated handy man by passion :rofl:

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IMG_9062
The room being painted pitch black!
But not the A/C :thinking:


managed to secure a few of these on the 2nd hand market,… it’s all white so had to paint it black.

IMG_9214
results is gud enuff in my books.


Here I am attempting to replicate the Vicoustic Wavewood pattern as diffuser panel for the absorber panels.

The end result looks ok from a far. Naturally will do the bottom half too.
Of coz none of those polish laser cut finishing here.
Not an issue as eventually the whole panel will be nicely wrapped up.