IIRC CX-5200 is a pre-amp. What power amp do you pair with? I assume it is from the same series? When you say loving it better than your X8500H, care to elaborate what is better? Has the YPAO improve over the years? If not, did you use miniDSP to tame the bass region etc? Pls share your experience. It’s rather rare to have a Yamaha user in this forum or even in XP for that matter.
Yes, am using the MX 5200
My setup is “tuned” by the vendor, I am lazy.
Did not use EQ for both Denon and Yamaha, similarly for my previous setup. For some reasons, always prefer it off.
Guess due to Yamaha PEQ, it is easier to have it tune further by the vendor. Further there was quick measurements done on my ear sensitivity and bass prior to PEQ settings.
Lol…me not too technical. With only the change from 8500 to CX/MX and PEQ adjustments, I find musicality is much better, note that i typically play music in stereo mode.
For HT, while I find the bass does becomes less ooph, the gain in details, especially dialogue, out weigh that. Furthermore, I am not really a boom boom guy. Overall, I find the experience more pleasant.
Currently, my place is under reno which will then have acoustic panels in place, which I believe will enhance it further.
Hi Foodie,
- could u elaborate more what this “overblown subwoofer response” is and what u are experiencing? Because it can mean many many things for bass.
I believe it is due to the room resonance nodes. Some frequencies it just sound “boomy” and “muddied”, ie lacking clarity, control and “loose”.
- Do you run your YPAO calibration on your yammy AVR? If yes, how did it go?
I did that before 2-3 times. However as I changed speakers and other components, including moving stuff around, I got lazy to do it everytime. Furthermore, I could not really hear the improvements if any, thus I did not bother doing it subsequently.
- How do you level match your subs’ gain with your speakers?
I used a electronic decibel meter set at 80DB at listening position.
- Are you using a house curve on your sub/ DSP to manage your sub’s bass frequency response?
Have no idea how to do this. Not even aware this is possible with the Yammy.
- do u know what frequencies are giving u issues in your room? ie. bad dips or bad peaks. Do u have a freq response to show before and after YPAO calibration?
Nope, not so technical.
Also, I am into both Music and Movies.
I’ve a dedicated pre-power 2 channel that is integrated for HT via the HT bypass on the pre-amp.
As I get the same boominess in the music, my conclusion is that it is not so much an issue with the sub but an issue with the room standing waves.
wcseow,
Glad that your setup works - gives me some hope that there is a compromised solution for my situation. It is impossible setting my sitting position in the room center -
1st there’s a ceiling fan
2nd my stereo setup rather overkill, big floorstander driven by monoblocks (thus they require some distance from the back wall)
3rd another overkill - 120" screen with UST 
I know, the solution is a bigger room… just no $$ to move
Thanks for the inputs. This is good. Gives a good base of your problem statement, that bros here can use to give advice.
IMHO, if u would allow us to be frank & direct, it looks like the bass “issue” u face, is likely contributed by a few main causes, some of it being very FUNDAMENTAL.
You should try to address those areas to the best u can to deal with the inherent room issues, b4 changing to another AVR. Because if u just change AVR, w/o addressing those areas, u are likely to end up the same result.
Those areas are:
===================
1) Placement of speakers, sub, MLP
Could u share a photo & a top view layout, showing your speakers, sub, and MLP placement? So that bros here can help determine if there are any issues caused due to placement.
U mentioned u have big floorstanders in that space. That can be a potential problem as big floorstanders need enough space to breathe & sound well.
2) Room EQ Calibration
Thx for sharing that a proper full calibration was not done with your new gear. Of course it will not sound good bro (in most cases). Because, the speakers’ timing to your mlp is likely wrong, eq result is not matching w your new gear, bass peak issues not resolved, and the sub’s integration/time alignment with speakers is likely bad etc.
I’m not saying, the HT system is not able to sound well w/o room EQ. If u have the technical know-how, tools & expertise to make it sound very good w/o room EQ software, it is possible.
But if not, room EQ calibration is FUNDAMENTAL to any HT system to solve room issues to a basic extent. I owned yammy AVR before. If you do a proper room EQ calibration on YPAO, it can bring the HT experience up by quite a lot.
U said u did not hear improvements after YPAO room EQ. Well, this can be due to many reasons, so don’t jump the gun & assume it’s not good. 1st, I would want to determine or rule out if this is caused by an incorrect calibration process and also the know-how to do the fine-tuning after room EQ to optimise the sound to one’s liking.
Suggest you ask someone who is good with room EQ calibration process, bass House curve and speakers placement, to help u do a full calibration and fine tuning. Or read up online video tutorials resources. An easy one to refer to is HT guru (episodes 1-10 will do). B4 u really decide that room EQ does not have any difference.
A proper room EQ calibration with good speaker placement, can bring your HT experience up by many notches.
But for music listening, better to turn off ypao.
3) Go for a dual identical sub setup
This is CRITICAL because it will help to solve your room issues to a BIG extent. It minimises dips & smoothen your bass in the room, bringing your entire bass experience to a different level if u set it up well.
If space/size to place it is an issue, u can get 2 smaller subs. 2 smaller subs, is always better than 1 very good sub in 99% of the cases. This money will be better spent than putting your monies into a new AVR.
4) Get a easy-to-use DSP to manage your bass
Then, get this to manage your dual subs, to time align your subs and tame the peaks in your room.
From what u mentioned that u are not a “tech person”, my guess is u want something that is fuss free to manage and deploy. Get a Antimode DSP to manage your bass for you. It is idiot-proof. Just 1 button and it will do everything for u. It is that wonderful. Basic model only cost u about $200+, but the improvements u will get is many many times more.
I started off with the antimode SII when I was new in this hobby, it is darn easy to use. 
For music, if your subs are on, it could be beneficial to keep the DSP engaged on your subs with YPAO turned off as u would want the DSP to remove bass peaks issues caused by the room.
====================================
Spend time to look into these 4 areas thoroughly, and properly. And many bros here, can guarantee that it will bring u a BIG smile.
A much cheaper HT system with the above 4 areas done well, can sound much better than a HT system that is 5-10 times the price. Don’t waste your monies on the new AVR yet. Do this 4 areas WELL 1st.
Bro Foodie,
Thanks for the inputs.
I’ve very little play in terms of speaker placements… in any case, the approximate layout of the room is as
My main speakers are quite bulky as are the amplifiers powering them.
The sub is MK Sound X12, which is a big box squeezed in btw the components, they are literally 1-2cm nx to each other. There is little play width wise.
Length wise, my screen is actually in front of the speakers, a floor rising one from Vividstorm. I had wanted an “In-your-face” kinda granduer and putting the screen behind the speakers kinda limit the size as the speakers would block the view. Therefore, there is only so much space I can shift towards the sitting area before it gets “too near”…
I started the journey with Music as priority, but in recent times I do not listen ‘critically’ as much as I used to. Partially, the interest in a new AVR was due to the shift to more streaming services vs local sources.
I have moved from Nvidia Shield to now Apple TV - I just discovered that Apple messes with the audio ie, it does not passthru bitstream other than Atmos - I’m looking to get an xbox as next replacement. It does support KODI based on articles on the web - currently I run KODI off a HTPC that I hope to discard as it is over 5yrs old.
I liked the NAD for the BlueOS better streaming functionality. Bass management would be something to look at - not sure if this can be deployed for stereo setup as well…
So as you can see, there are many criterias at play and the challenge is finding the middle ground on the compromise.
nice. Possible to post a photo to show your front and back of room? 
What speaker model are u using and what % of use is movie: music
Hi ricky101
Hope you don’t mind, as I am just coming from an angle that you will like to have an improvement of HT sound, maybe better ATMOS experience?
The Yamaha processor u have and those you mention are, IMHO, pretty capable . I am just afraid that not much might be gain from HT/ATMOS sound experience sound perspective by swopping in another AVR/Processor.
Typically, from my experience, for a 5.x.x setup, the surrounds are best located behind the MLP as opposed to side directly. Since it is 2 Atmos speaker, I will guess the location of the atmos wrt to the surrounds are quite important to get a good enveloping experience.
I just have the feeling that if you are able to place the speakers in another positions, there might be a significant gain in HT sound with your existing setup.
Not sure whether you will consider doing some experiment like
a. If your surrounds are floor standing, try moving it to behind your seat, assuming the ATMOS is directly above the seat. Temporary just to have a sense of the change.
b. If your surrounds are wall mounted, maybe move your seat forward, if possible.
Hope it helps
There’s no fixed % split of the movies vs music, very much depends on the mood of the moment; a 50-50 probably a gud assumption as I’m passionate on both
Why is that so? You can can post a series of it.
Desray,
The system prompted “new user” limits pop up dialogue.
I was also no able to post more than 2 replies earlier.
Probably a spam protection mechanism.
wcseow,
I’m using wall mounted surround.
Not able to move seating too far front;
My atmos speakers are not ideal, it’s those reflection types… the effects aren’t anywhere near the ceiling mounted kind.
Any major work (ie drilling and reposition) surround and Atmos would require significant motivation-
Due to my front equipment size and weight,
there’s significant effort needed to move them out of the way plus protect against dust… I need a lot of convincing that there’ll be substantial improvement and benefits. 
Maybe once new equipment change and a pair ceiling mounted Atmos,… till then, I probably just move few inches left and right
Yes. U need to post more often to get past all those “limitations”. It is a defense mechanism against spambots.
Whoa, nice setup! 
Love the unique look of those speakers. Man, they are HUGE for the room! Just wondering, won’t u face challenges to place them to have enough space around it to breathe and not affecting the minimum width needed for imaging/sound stage?
My listening area is similar too, 4m depth x 3m width, so can appreciate the space limitations u face.
Music - I can’t comment as I’m a 99% HT person. So it will be mainly for HT.
From the photos, few observations. A few placement issues:
Frontal width of front speakers/ Minimum angle of front speakers to MLP
- The frontal width between your front speakers seems not sufficient to have the minimum angle needed for angling VS your MLP based on Dolby specs.
- This affects the overall sound stage + intended frontal sound panning between LCR speakers
Surrounds VS MLP placement
- Like what wcseow pointed out, your surrounds placement is not good for 5.x.x wrt your MLP and will affect the intended surround envelop effect.
- Because of your door, I would mount your surrounds near the corners of the rear wall, such that it points diagonally from the rear at an angle to have the intended sound envelop effect for HT.
- Also, do consider moving your MLP fwd slightly besides shifting your surround backwards to achieve the min angle based on Dolby specs. By doing this, your front speakers angle to your MLP will improve too and it will improve frontal sound stage.
- I can’t seem to locate your surrounds in the photo beside your sofa. Are they mounted above?
LCR timbre matching
- great work in raising the centre high to ear level
- Seems like your centre is different brand. If the timbre and tonality is very different, this affects your HT frontal immersion and LCR panning greatly due to incoherent tonality.
- If your front speakers are much better in specs, and u dont intend to change the centre speaker, suggest u explore phantom centre approach for HT to have a more coherent sound field and sound panning from the front.
Subwoofer
- how low can your front’s go and when does it start rolling off?
- staying on 1 sub seriously will not give u good bass as the serious peaks and nulls caused by the room will affect your sound a lot, both in HT and music.
- as i suggested earlier, get 2 identical subs. Try placing them front middle and rear middle as this is a recommended placement to smoothen the bass response. Play around with placement for the best results…
- Get an Antimode DSP to manage the dual subs.
Are u using your sub for music too? Or do u switch off the sub for music?
Thanks, those are great speakers. Placement wise, I found that the width is not as critical as the depth. It needs some distance from the front wall to get that 3 dimensional soundstage.
These are not your usual conventional but omi-directional (the sound propagates 360 degrees on the horizontal plane). Thus the issue of directivity is a non-issue. Below is the speaker without the grills, as you can see the tweeter, mid and mid-bass driver shape face the full 360 degree. There is a 12" sub-woofer integrated in the ported enclosure.
At the moment, not a lot can be done on the surrounds;
I might look into moving the around, but drilling new holes and relocating the brackets is a major effort especially protecting the existing equipments from dust.
Surrounds are from MK Sound S150, they are tri-pole, so it’s not exactly directional.
The atmos is Elac unit that bounces from the ceiling. I would look into ceiling mount if I decided to relocate the surround.
Wall mounted - a bit too high
You are correct, the center is from Dynaudio Confidence series. My ears are probably not that sensitive to timbre as I find the sound integrates quite ok,… If you refer to my new thread below, I had revised the config,… I brought the center back to the front… not ideal in term of sound placement, however the SQ is much better. I am more willing to accept this compromise. As my screen is not acoustically transparent, it does lose a lot of fidelity when place behind the screen… sound distinctively veil/muffled.
I started a thread to discuss on the room nodes here Room Nodes. There are some plots as well.
The front does goes very low… near 30Hz;
I have moved the sub to the side wall on my left. It is not too boomy and after YPAO, I find it acceptable 95% of the time. I do not use it for music - overkill and integration with the front just not ideal.
Wow, those front speakers are super interesting. Must hear them one day man. Must have cost u a lot… Does this brand do matching centre speakers as well?
Surrounds - tri-pole will help a bit. But moving them to a more “rear” position would help a lot in the sound 
ATMOS - reflection method is very hard to get it sound right. If u can, mounting them in the ceiling would be great.
You are welcome to experience it once we have a new normal
TBH this brand was never in my “dream path” in my earlier part of the journey.
I went from B&W to KEF, back to B&W, then Sonus Faber, Dynaudio and finally MBL.
At some point I drooled over the horns from AvantGarde.
Unfortunately MBL is position more as a stereo purist. I’ve seen some people using a single bookshelf for center duty but the shape and size is just plain awkward.
This would be project for the future… way too many moving parts at the moment…
exploring my “source” solution… getting that ‘all-in-1’ device - hopefully later today I will have a zidoo Z9x to play for a few days to sort out my impression
Hi Bro,
The boomy bass that you are experiencing with both movies and music is due to the room primary mode peak. Based on room dimensions, it is likely in the 35hz range.
Using the PEQ in your yamaha processor, try applying a high Q cut (Q of 5 or even higher) at 35hz range ( try 34, 35, 36 Hz etc ) up to 6-8db cut. Not too familiar with the yamaha, if can apply for both subwoofer channel as well as front LR channel for stereo.
You should be able to hear the difference clearly once the cut addresses the main modal peak.
Let us know if this works.
Amazing MBL speakers and electronics !! Superb!!
You are spot on in terms of the cause of the boomy FR - this I am aware from early on;
The on-going challenge is how to effectively address it without introducing issues in other areas.
Theorectically based on the room dimensions;
The primary axial nodes are 43Hz, 55Hz and 67Hz
Comparing to the actual SPL plot the problem area is 43Hz, 67Hz and 80Hz (grey plot).
The 2nd axial node of 55Hz don’t really give any issue, while the tangential node at 79Hz does.
Moving the speakers around I ended up with a relative compromized where the offending 43Hz seems to be addressed. The room treatment adsorbers seems to help (as shown by the blue line plot.
After running the YPAO calibration after the latest reshuffling, I’m quite content (for now). The boom is addressed for the most part except for rare occasions while stereo imaging is not compromised too much…
In the future, when itchy finger/butt, things will change again - that’s for sure.
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