The shade of green headscarf on the madvr here looks different from your calibrated Panasonic OLED green below
So which is the correct green? Here we can see the shape of the headscarf the above version we can’t
The shade of green headscarf on the madvr here looks different from your calibrated Panasonic OLED green below
So which is the correct green? Here we can see the shape of the headscarf the above version we can’t
Suggest you retake the picture at night with the OLED in total darkness. My OLED also looks like yours during the day in bright light. Also play the 4K HDR version. Not the 1080p
Since OLED has perfect black, if you have light in the room on very dark scenes, even a backlight, your eye’s iris will close down to the point where things in the room look fine, but dark scenes on the OLED will look murky. The overall brightness of the room will also cause the phone camera to close down the iris to produce the picture you show.
There will be some slight differences in color even though both are Calman calibrated on the same colorimeter because of the white balance on the iPhone and the difference in brightness. They are visually close to me on direct observation. You can come over to check
Don’t worry mate, not here to audit your set up, just letting you know your colours look off between the two OLED vs madvr. The same camera is showing 2 different shades of green and if it’s calibrated to reference with the same methodology and tools, they should look identical, if one is bt2020 the other sdr2020 they must show the same shades of green… , the camera won’t lie when it comes to this, maybe luminance might be different but colours won’t look so vastly different with the same camera
The reason I’m recalibrating my pj is because even the slightest of red tint is captured by the camera. At first, it looked normal to me, but as I observe closely, I noticed this red tint on the old calibrated profile
You can observe above, the camera won’t lie, one is with the red tint the other without…
The above green I’m seeing, is not even a green tint to it, it’s an entirely different type green in the colour space
I’m not worried in the least because I know it’s the camera’s white balance. I suppose I could go get my Sony mirrorless and fixed the white balance on the camera to show you…, but best you come over and check it out yourself.
As for your two images below
the colors are also different. Compared to your OLED, the black face on your projector has an unnatural green/yellow push. If your theory that the same phone camera should always show the same shades of color, something must be odd with your shots too
Did you ever compare the above with your calibrated OLED? It would have been obvious…
Ya agreed it’s different but not vastly different, this one is in sdr709 vs the pj in bt2020… but it’s in dark green
The above one u have shared is an entirely different type of green. It’s either the calibration is different with sdr2020 vs bt2020 or the madvr is doing something on the signal
In any case, don’t worry about it, as long as you r happy they are done correctly and they look identical on screen, that’s all that matters…
I’m just highlighting to u, they are vastly different from what we are seeing here and the camera is capturing this difference
Yes that is why I have recalibrated as mentioned above. I noticed this problem with the older calman software . It does look incorrect with the red tint in all the pictures, partly due to iris as well. This was pointed out by sharing images captured on HP camera with other folks, the camera is able to pick up this difference.
But that’s actually good because now I know it was incorrect before. And it’s because of this I have made another attempt to correct it …
My view is that your OLED is the correct shade and it looks quite like mine. Your projector has an unnatural shade, even though it is in a wider color space of BT2020.
My point is not to say that your projector calibrations aren’t correct. You are one of the most well known calibrators here. However, your photographic equipment i.e. phone is not up to your calibration skills
Guarantee you my OLED and projector look similar in shade. The OLED is perhaps more saturated, but that is just it’s technology… Can come over any night to compare for yourself.
Anyway, promise me you will take a picture of that black panther scene on your OLED in a totally dark room. I am certain it will look exactly like mine and completely unlike the PJ one with DTM on. However, it will look like the one with DTM off.
Sure, as long as they look identical from what u r seeing, that’s what matters, that means the madvr is not doing anything to the signal. And the calibration is accurate on both OLED and Pj
I agree the camera is not ideal in certain situations and not doing any justice , best to watch it in person
But it’s also thanks to the camera that I found out about this red tint, without sharing it with other folks I wouldn’t have known about it…
I would like to point out with DTM, we are compressing pixels (of course, the extend of the compression and at which brightness the compression starts to kick in much depends on the DTM settings, i.e., madVR’s settings in my/bro Sammy’s case).
The compression and gamut conversion (if applicable, it definitely applicable for my case as I use BT709) will cause saturation issue thus madVR offers a group of deSat settings for user to tweak to as close to original uncompressed saturation as possible. Although it’s impossible to completely eliminate DTM side effects (it’s not realistic for <200 nits projector users to ask for the best of both worlds - massive big screen and 100% HDR feel), MadVR does offer very comprehensive settings to enable users to reduce them to minimum.
I understood the criticality of colour accuracy to professional calibrators, but as consumer, I’m not very concerned on slight saturation off unless it’s way obvious (for example, blue becomes purple, or very unnatural skin colour like the lady in the greatest showman if DTM is not done properly). I would care more on the watchability of the movie contents. For instance, I don’t like the black panther night scene to light up like stadium, I also don’t like the faces to blend into the darkness and become invisible, the latter will bother me more, but again, it’s just my personal preference, YMMV
I also realize from this shot, that there is also digital color noise in the photo. This is likely due to the capability of the iPhone sensor in taking a very low light shot on an OLED, which has perfect black.
The noise is quite visible if you zoom in and the noise alters the colors. If I have time, I’ll retake this using a camera with a larger sensor in RAW format. If there is still color noise, then I can denoise the photo using DXO, a photo editing software, which has PRIME, an algorithm which is very effective in removing color noise. That should bring it up to what the eye actually sees.
Actually I used to be like u in the past. In the early years, I always had that question in mind when it comes to colours. So when I turn on Oppo, I see a shade of blue. Then I start to wonder, which type of blue is this ? How do I know if it should be darker blue or lighter blue or even purple. Back then I had that mentality, Ah ya, blue only, if u prefer darker blue then let it be as long as it’s blue. So I ended up having preference for darker blue. Anyway, it’s a preference thing, as long as it turns out to be blue, it’s good enough. I had that thought
This mentality didn’t get me far, because unlike bass where u can tweak for more bass or less bass etc, with colours u can’t do that. Too much white to the red and u have pink, too much red and your blue starts to look purple, all the colours shift according to this.
As time passes, I started to appreciate accuracy, especially for colours. Because with video, there is no preference, there is only reference. All the colours are a % of white. Any of the colour coordinates are off, the colour shifts. We then lose the details and shades of that colour
I’m also consumer, not colorist or specialist but I appreciate accurate colours when watching the movie, it makes it a lot more immersive.
If u have been in this hobby just only, the colour accuracy probably won’t matter to u, like for my Mrs. She everytime say” u Jiak pa Bo so? Why need to caibrate again ?
But if u r in this hobby long enough, u care about the quality and accuracy, then it matters to u…
Apologies if I had disappointed u by saying it’s lighting up like a stadium, I could have chosen to ignore your post. But I think of u as a nice chap and wanted u to know that the black panther u r seeing is really starting to look grey and definitely need help
I guess at the end of the day, if u r happy with what u r seeing, that’s what matters most
@Foodie now that you are back online, can you take a picture of the black panther scene above on your OLED, which I know is calibrated to a very low dE, in a completely dark room to see what an almost perfectly calibrated latest generation OLED display looks like.
Shouldn’t trust a newbie like me…
@Ronildoq Bro Bryan, I would like to apologize if my post gave you an impression that I felt offended or disappointed with your comments, it must be my poor English which didn’t express and deliver the msg well. To be honest, while I enjoyed the tremendous improvement on brightness and shadow details with madVR, your honest comments made me ponder, and realized I did overlook what I deviated from - the director’s intent, I believe it’s definitely not director’s intent to light up the jungle like stadium, you pointed a clear direction what would be the picture quality I’d like to achieve with more tweaking. and @sammy Bro Sammy’s photo sharing on the same scenes confirmed that, the insane brightness level in my setup is unnecessary and exaggerated. So I really appreciated your inputs and sharing (I learned a lot from a lot of posts you shared here, and back to our old XP forums, and not only on this topic, but many more…so kudos to your enthusiasm on this hobby and the spirit of open sharing).
So, please continue to give me honest comments and advices, really, I know I’m still at very beginner level compared to old birds like you, Desray, Sammy and many others here. So no worries, I can take negative feedbacks and comments, as long as the intent is good.
Very well said, I completely agree with you, and I know when you are in this hobby long and polish your skills/techniques enough, you will naturally aim for better. For me, I know where I’m, remember, I didn’t even calibrate my projector properly (as mentioned earlier, it would be my next area of improvement), so it would be unrealistic for me to talk about color accuracy. I take one step at a time, and enjoy every single improvement along the way. So one day (maybe soon, or maybe it takes time), I will take color accuracy as my priority, I presume it would be after I have other more fundamental stuffs sorted out first.
Sammy here night capture as promised
I’m using bias lights for the tv. So just quick snap shot… I can’t really see the lady”s headscarf shape as clearly , only her face…
Anyway, let’s not worry about it… otherwise we will be going on and on. if we each prefer more light or less light, these can all be adjusted or tweaked. So as long as we are happy with the overall image and strike a nice balance, that’s perfectly alright …
Let’s enjoy the system !
Hmmm…I’m looking at this scene on Disney Plus and clearly it’s a night and day difference between the shots you showed and the one I saw on my Lumagen + JVC NZ7. There are much more shadow details in that scene and Nakia flesh tone also very different.
Sure. No worries. I’ll try mine with a bias light
Can you post a picture