Gavin's DIY Home Theatre (Hardcore)

HDR calibration is currently quite limited. Even with advanced software like Calman. For HDR, Calman only measures 5 patches and then calculates a matrix LUT. For SDR, I do a 17x17x17 LUT with 4,913 measurements that takes 6 hours. My guess is that the SDR calibration is more accurate than the HDR.

For MadVR, I’ve done a SDR2020 calibration ie SDR in a BT2020 colorspace. MadVR then tone maps each scene frame by frame and maps the HDR image into SDR, but preserves the BT2020 color space for a true reflection of the colors. Mapping into SDR compresses the 0-10,000 nits into about 0-100 nits (you specify the range in MadVR), which is what most projectors get on a screen in their accurate modes.

It is therefore the best of both worlds. Not only do you get all the advantages of SDR, but you get the full HDR colors. If you watch pure SDR content, you lose the wider BT2020 color space and are left with Rec 709. These days, content is taking advtange of the wider gamut of colors and it is quite noticeable.

2 Likes

Static HDR on old JVC. I’m using zidoo VS10 with custom edid, maybe that’s helping with some tone mapping.

Actually, is it clear what exactly does VS10 do with the Dolby engine?

Ah… so you are using LLDV. I remember now that your projector does not have Frame Adapt. The VS10’s Dolby Vision engine is dynamically tone mapping DV to HDR10. That explains why the Meg scene looks quite ok. I used LLDV for a few years and was quite happy, but MadVR is much better. Also there is the occasional title that is in HDR10 and not available in DV

1 Like

Gavin, where is this scene from?

The Dark Knight, the chase scene in the underground road.

After more tweaking, realised that the 100nit edid for zidoo made the PQ very low contrast.

Switched back to the basic Bt2020 edid and the custom curves really work well.

Great! Glad you figured it out. Certainly looks more contrasty

Swapped my edid for Roku DV streams to 400 nits. Looked really balanced so did the same for the zidoo VS10.

Here’s the result.










I think I am at a good stage to pause, enjoy the room while I ponder the next stages of work.

2 Likes

Time to sit back, enjoy the new found pq and sq + taste the fruits of your labour!

1 Like

Been doing more research and understanding of subjective image brightness and balance.

Found some interesting info from the vast Avsforum experience with custom curves for JVC projectors.

In particular, this is an informative concept . Same image displayed at 75nits vs 120 nits, with tone map adjusted appropriately.

A lot of scenarios, where people are struggling with a dim image, and think they need more lumens.

I’ve always thought from theory, is possible to get a very good looking image even with less than 100 nits on screen.

I’ve been playing around with the Arve custom gamma tool. It gives a lot of flexibility to customise the tone curve, albeit fixed.

This is showing one of the default 4000nits curve, that one can fine tune.

There are 3 slots for custom curve on my old JVC.

I’m fine tuning 3 custom curve.
1st top bright curve, for those movies that just look dim and need a bit more punch and pop. Or certain darker scenes, just switch to this curve for a brighter image. Eg black panther intro jungle scene. Good green tones on the vehicles, and the dirt road is a good brown tone.

2nd, middle is the default curve for majority of content mastered at 1000nits. Good balance of bright image, good pop and punch, without clipping highlights.

3rd, bottom is for those very bright movie, basically mastered at 4000nits. Tend to be blown highlights like the Meg, aquaman.

The diving cage scene from The Meg

This is an earlier plot from testing. The middle default curve I ended up dropping it a bit more from the top bright curve.

I switched zidoo edid back to 1000nits, and this combo has been working really well in my testing and viewing.

This 1000nits edid then I find, works very well with the default JVC st 2084 HDR gamma curve as well.

I can adjust picture tone for a brighter and darker image, to match the 3 custom curves. And even go brighter, or dimmer, for those occasional outlier content.

This is how the adjustments work. You can see how it looks similar shape to the custom curves

Finally, just an example from the movie I was watching last night. Old movie The Score, Robert de Niro, Edward Norton.

It looked a bit dim still with my bright curve, so I used the HDR curve and bumped the pic tone a bit more.

The first one is the HDR curve, with a bit brighter presentation. Nowadays I’m paranoid to look for color clipping when pushing the image brighter. Maybe a bit more of the sea is clipped highlights, but that is rather benign. The red building in the horizon actually looks more red and more bright. If color is clipped, it would look less saturated as color clipped.

Custom 1 bright curve.

Generally, I found the JVC st 2084 curve to be more contrasty, meaning brighter brightness and darker darks. The details and definition also look more pop and punch. Dunno how JVC does it.

When AB compare with custom curve, the HDR curve will look ‘better’ and ‘preferred’ to the eye. But what I also found is the higher contrast can cause eye fatigue. The custom curve presents a more balanced look, that still has good pop and punch, but also more relaxed for the eyes.

Between the zidoo edid and the custom curves, I seem to be able to get a good looking bright image across variety of material. Without having to go the path of external video processing.

As they say, ignorance is bliss. Will continue to tweak, explore and understand the limits of this approach.

Looks like u are more poisoned liao by pq and accuracy! Haha…

Welcome to the exciting world of color accuracy and calibration!

Maybe one day u will jump on lumagen hehehe

So you are feeding LLDV via Zidoo at 1,000 nits into your custom curve. That actually makes sense because most movies are mastered at 1,000 nits, since that was the max for many TVs, so many custom curves would work well.

I do a similar thing in feeding LLDV via Vertex2 into MadVR. MadVR can actually handle everything, but sometimes I watch with the HTPC off so the source is always 1,000 nit LLDV

1 Like