*Official Thread* Anthem AVM 70 & 90 and MRX 540, 740 & 1140

[Ronildoq]

@moshe

very impresive.

What effect does this sample rate have on the sonic result?
In the video of the comparison between Anthem and Trinov there were sections that were heard well and clearly and in Anthem they were hardly heard if at all. And this is a very significant and very important difference.
As a listener and viewer, I would like to receive the full details and certainly not to miss any detail in the presentation of the details.

You can read the detailed breakdown of it on one of the sites here →

Anthem AVM 70 Preamplifier-Processor Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The benefits are mainly in the “Quality of data” made available to ARCG. A higher sample rate just means better quality data captured , no aliasing problems, lower noise in the upper bandwidth , lower harmonic distortion . The Anthem AVM does it natively 192/24, not upsampling

So example if you are using a mic which is poor in quality, the quality of the data suffers as well. And If you don’t have enough measurements taken from different parts of the room, ARCG will not have enough data for analysis of how these speakers & sub interact with the room. All these “captured quality data” allows ARCG to work out the appropriate parameters & filters necessary to fix the response from speakers and subwoofers in that particular room.

Note that I have said fixing the speakers in the room and not room correction. So it’s not really taking into consideration the “sound power” but rather only the on axis measurements data from the speakers. Unlike the lyngdorf that does a proper “room correction” taking the sound power response from the speakers.

Sound power can be described as the on axis response + reflected energy (early and late) to arrive at MLP

In the video that you have seen, comparisons between the trinnov and anthem AVM90 8k model, I have my doubts.

Firstly, he mentioned the system was done with a quick set up. A quick set up means it’s not optimised for the best. A good calibrator makes a big difference. I can safely say that if a good calibrator is given and entry level denon vs one who has no idea how to calibrate a lyngdorf, if u AB them, the denon will sound nicer than the lyngdorf. The calibrator plays a huge role

Secondly, the level of detail from the AKM DACs are not the same with the dynamic range you get from the sabre 9038pro. (Has to be this model, other sabre models not the same quality)

Thirdly, the choice for source used to compare. Certain tracks sound nicer. For example, if you are comparing a sound track that has a lot of emphasis for imaging, the trinnov will stand out. It has superb processing capabilities. Now if you compare a sound track like “a quiet place” that has superb dynamics and details, the AVM90 on the sabre will stand out…

Unless you have done all the above, most people won’t know the differences

That’s my view…

[Ronildoq]

When I first got my hands on the AVM90, I spent like 2 weeks understanding what ARCG was doing. I wasted 2 weeks of my time on 1.6.5 beta firmware.

But later when I got onto 1.6.10, I noticed it was so consistent, 10x I run it, 10x I’m getting the same results, this includes integration for multiple 4 subs from 4 different locations. The timing phase , polarity was all bang on correct with 1.6.10 version. So I thought it was down to stable firmware. Yesterday, I realised it’s partly due to the “captured quality data” by the mic at higher sampling rate made available to ARCG for its analysis . That allowed the algorithm to work out the parameters and filters consistently all the time.

Once I was happy 1.6.10 was stable and consistent , I stayed put on this version. I wasn’t tempted to do any firmware upgrade etc.

You will also observe comments from other users, the platform is pretty stable on the Anthem. This is very important, you don’t want to be spending days troubleshooting, can be very frustrating when things are not working.

Don’t forget, Time = Money. Sometimes it’s a lot more worth it spending that time with your family or friends or watching more movies etc than troubleshooting for problems that wasnt there to begin with

[desray]

I have tweaked your file a little more. I have forwarded the modified .arc file to your gmail. Re-upload and re-do your phase and see if it improves the LCR, esp the centre spk.

[Ronildoq]

Finally found a flaw in ARCG! spelling mistake

Measuring “from” !

[desray]

LoL

[Shlomi]

Thank you very much.
Will check tomorrow

[Shlomi]

Hi
Thank you
I am not getting success passing the phaze correcrtions.
I am getting this message
“critical audio problem. Please check the microphone and speaker connections”.
I did check and everything is fine.
I tried two times and not succeed.

[desray]

I presume your ARC s/w is able to detect the mic? If so, restart Windows and switch to a different USB port. Take a look at the Device Manager and see if there is any “exclamation mark” on any devices. Remove and re-scan hardware changes and let Windows re-install the driver. If still cannot, remove all arc files using the ARC s/w. Start a new measurement file to ensure the calibration mic is working fine. If worked, re-upload the arc file to the MRX and try phase correction again.

[desray]

Have you resolved it? What ARC s/w version are you in? 1.74 or 1.5.4? You may want to uninstall the s/w and install the last stable version. If all else fail, you may want to do a factory reset.

[manulover]

Hello friends

I have an avm70.

Desray told me that having 2 subwoofers, one in the front and the other in the back of my room, it is advisable to invert the phase of one of the subwoofers and the truth is that if I invert the phase it seems that the sound worsens the bass a bit.

What explanation is there to reverse the phase in these Desray anthems?

Thank you

[desray]

@manulover

it is advisable to invert the phase of one of the subwoofers and the truth is that if I invert the phase it seems that the sound worsens the bass a bit.

What explanation is there to reverse the phase in these Desray anthems?

Hi, not inverse the phase but to invert the polarity. It’s different. Depending on the room and the layout of your subwoofers, you can invert the polarity of one of the subwoofers if the the subwoofers are placed in front and rear. Whether to invert the polarity will depend on the overall summation of the freq response when both subwoofer freq are combined.

[Whitesox]

Aiyah… Make it simple…
Both put it in-front at L side and R side next to your speaker.
5 feet of separation for bookshelf speakers, or 8 feet for floorstanding speakers.
Phase (both) set to zero.
If your subwoofer is ported… be careful… it can become ‘a speaker’ also.

[desray]

@Whitesox

Aiyah… Make it simple…
Both put it in-front at L side and R side next to your speaker.
5 feet of separation for bookshelf speakers, or 8 feet for floorstanding speakers.
Phase (both) set to zero.

Bro, I wish it’s that simple and for umpteen times, I am talking about the polarity switch NOT the phase.

[Whitesox]

@desray

polarity switch NOT the phase

Bro,
What do you mean with ‘… polarity switch NOT the phase’?

Subwoofers usually talks about 0/180 phase.
Speakers usually talk about polarity -/+

Phase is related to the delay or change in time of an audio signal. The phase of a signal, relative to the starting point is express in degrees.

In the context of subwoofers, the polarity switch typically refers to the ability to invert the electrical signal that drives the subwoofer’s cone.
Set to 0, the cone moves outward.
Set to 180, the cone moves inward.

[desray]

Let’s examine what we are talking here before it gets really messy.

Once upon a time, it started off with this question from member, manulover;

@manulover

Hello friends

I have an avm70.

Desray told me that having 2 subwoofers, one in the front and the other in the back of my room, it is advisable to invert the phase of one of the subwoofers and the truth is that if I invert the phase it seems that the sound worsens the bass a bit.

What explanation is there to reverse the phase in these Desray anthems?

To which, I responded:

@desray

Hi, not inverse the phase but to invert the polarity. It’s different. Depending on the room and the layout of your subwoofers, you can invert the polarity of one of the subwoofers if the subwoofers are placed in front and rear. Whether to invert the polarity will depend on the overall summation of the freq response when both subwoofer freq are combined.

In a nutshell, polarity alters the entire signal whereas the phase adjustment centers around the x-over frequency.

Your response to manulover:

@Whitesox

Aiyah… Make it simple…
Both put it in-front at L side and R side next to your speaker.
5 feet of separation for bookshelf speakers, or 8 feet for floorstanding speakers.
Phase (both) set to zero.
If your subwoofer is ported… be careful… it can become ‘a speaker’ also.

My response to your post:

@desray

Bro, I wish it’s that simple and for umpteen times, I am talking about the polarity switch NOT the phase.

Your explanation on the phase and the subwoofer polarity are textbook answers and spot on! I am not challening any of those answers. But I think the confusion is I am responding to manulover’s query on my advice to “invert the phase” of one of the subwoofers and is INCORRECT. I am trying to correct his misconception. Your subsequent post to manulover’s query is based on your advice to set the phase on both Subs to “zero” with 2 subwoofers placed in the front, which you are not wrong. But that isn’t the original intent of the query which in essence, is incorrect to begin with. Hope I am not making this even more confusing.

Bottom line here is your argument is valid in most cases but Anthem ARC has an underlying bug which sometimes requires the user to switch the polarity (in the Anthem WebUI) to get the overall subwoofer freq response in positive summation. Again, this is only applicable to Anthem ARC users. Lest we forget, this is an Anthem Owner’s thread. I am addressing the issue that is “uniquely” Anthem.

[manulover]

Hello partners

Well, after continuing with my tests changing the polarity of the rear subwoofer in my living room, I must say that Desray was right because the bass sounds more forceful and tight with the polarity in inverted mode of the rear subwoofer.

What scientific explanation can be said about this?

Who does not know this type of thing may be losing part of the frequency information in the bass of their subwoofers.

all the best

[Ronildoq]

If you can, try to avoid inverting polarity, you would ideally want both subwoofer drivers to move in and out the same time. This is important as it involves timing response that cannot be seen on the amplitude response graph. This can only be seen on the decay , waterfall / spectrogram graph

I would work with sticking to both subwoofers either having both negative or both positive polarity. Then work on delays of the nearest subwoofer relative to MLP . Ideally, you want to get the delays of the nearer subwoofer to match that of the furthest subwoofer

This method will not only give you the best summation for your subs (in phase) + it will give you the best timing response . When both subs are fully in phase, it will give you a +6db gain of hen perfectly in phase. So your decay in the low frequencies region will also be better controlled to some extent .

Hope that helps and good luck with your blending of subwoofers

[desray]

Yes, that will be the most ideal thing to do, I also wish it is that simple. Other variable comes into play - e.g. how many subwoofers (2, 3 or 4?), AVM90 has 4 individual SW outputs vs 2 independent output for MRX1140 or worse, parallel S/W output for MRX 540, the placement of the subwoofers and coupled with the technical know-how to make it work. The advice given by me is a simple one-time “fix” and is meant to point out the flaw detected in ARC measurement involving multiple subwoofers. I truly hope Anthem can come up with a fix on this “polarity” bug for multiple subwoofers. The reasons why some users don’t experience this can be attributed to the co-location of their subwoofers at the same position
or say in the front plane - e.g. flanking the corners or mains will likely not have this issue. The best way to check if you need to invert the polarity of the subwoofer is to use the REW + UmiK 1 to check and ensure there are no “undesirable” effects on the freq response and a drop in your output at a certain freq. If all is good, then there is NO NEED to invert but if you feel the bass is weak, you can try inverting the polarity.

Let me be very clear…inverting the polarity is NOT A MUST but is an easy “fix” for those experiencing weak bass output AFTER ARC and phase correction.

[oajungen]

Hi,
I just looked into my AVM90 and saw a modification or repair on the power PCB. Lowest PCB. Just wondering if I am alone or this is a standard modification which applies for all AVM90 currently?

Regards

[desray]

New firmware. Looks like there are some optimization for the “noisy” fan.

Network Module Version: 2.2.203
Host firmware 78

• Optimized fan profile
• Fixed volume sensitivity for analog direct on AVM (was too low)
• Other minor bug fixes and improvements